Macca

Paul's old car sold to Max a month or so ago, + a $40K mark up (because in the UK a good 993C2 asks 60K+ GBP at a top shelf dealer didnt you know..).

Kiwi Carguy

Its not the only one http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-976978657.htm

Macca

Imported C4 Cab. Almost as rare as a 993RS apparently according to the advert. Another bargain at 120,000 Pacific Paesos!! I love that Max has single handedly decided to BOOST the 993 used market in NZ (didn't he have his silver 993TT up for 300k recently?) but if it was working then why is your car still for sale??

Unfortunately this is just a "cool-aid high" I think. I have many$$ pleasurable reasons to be wrong of course because if Pauls old car is worth 120k then with a new 15k paint job surely I'll get past the "tonne" lol! With 40k appreciation over 8 weeks could even make 80k while its in the paint shop?? Ha ha...

993 Targa

About time 993s adjusted to the right level. With 964s being worth so much these days it makes sense that 993s would be that much more.

pcarplayer

I did wonder if it was being flipped

Garry D

Why is it that Dutton's double the price on what they have paid for cars here , when they are just for export ? is it part of the export process ? or just a slap in the face to the person who sold the car .

Macca

At risk of digging up this ugly subject again Stuart I thought 993 C2/4 (6spd) prices have done pretty well in the last 6 months running from $70K for a 150K km+ 1994 NZ car (black) to essentially $90K for a 1995 80k km import in exceptional condition. Three sales I know of averaging 80K all early cars NVR.

Trying to deal with facts only here not BS speculation.

Compared that to 964 C2 5spd prices last three months thee examples running 45K for a 190K example import to a rumored 65K for a lowish KM Australian import car. The three examples in 6 months I know give averages of $53K.

Small sample but would indicate averages of 55/80 between 964/993. I dont think anyone would be surprised at that in todays market and would probably agree its where the historical ratio sits.

I dont know of any potential export sales of the above models to include in the comparo.

UK market for 993 has become very buoyant in the last 6 months with good cars finally moving from 40ishK GBP averages (where they have sat for a long time) to 60kish GBP.

So it would seem that the 993 is finally on the up in the UK. Its happening also in the USA. Although the cars sold new only a few dollars and years apart the 964 had fallen back much more than the 993 - the 993 has always had very solid residuals all the way back to 15 years ago when I started studying the market. The 964 has played catch up in the last few years but there still appears to be a delta between them. The problem is 964 prices are now nearing being out of the range for enthusiasts and as project/back date donors so it falls back to collectors where the 993 has the advantage of being the "last air-cooled model" for what that may be worth....

And that's all i have to day about that :-)

John McM

I think we have debated this many times Macca. In the 3 years since I repatriated there are only two 964s I regret not buying (Lola, ex Dave ex Matt) and Peter's C4 (missed out by hours on that in 2012). No one as far as I know has unloaded a looked after manual 964 for cents on the dollar. If they had it would be sitting in my garage. I don't know what it is about the two models but 993s (until recently) seem to be in better base condition and 964s are the more modded cars.

Case in point

Macca

Agreed John. Subject closed.

P.S. Its nice to see 964's making up lost ground they should never really have lost. Means folks buying them now are enthusiasts and starting to spend money on them to bring them back like most on here and in RSG group. I have no doubt that within 5-10 years, 964s & 993s will be in similar well kept condition.

John McM

I should qualify why I mentioned those two cars, it's because they have been tested on the track a few times, and are either known good condition or have had money thrown at them, Lola in particular.

Mr Black is in that space now and no doubt there are others but they don't seem to come on market, which is still my bugbear with price comparisons.

We are seeing money 'invested' in air cooled in general. At some point condition will come more into pricing (I hope) for regular drivers.

There are 13,000 FB 964 club members which is incredible considering there were only 60,000 cars made. Some of the posts show considerable investment in these cars.

Sorry but it bugs me to have prices for less than perfect cars compared. Good grief I'm talking my book as much as others.

John McM

Btw the orange car I posted is actually a 964. The owner is looking for parts to put it back to looking like a 964.

pcarplayer

Go cars not show cars!

Some great shots of this beautiful green longhood on Petrolicious

http://www.petrolicious.com/this-gre...-san-francisco

Macca

Agree John. But you are the first I know in our group to have a full respray (apart from Lola but that was partial and accident related). We may have to wait for your car to sell to get something comparative to say Pauls - but as Paul will tell you and probably Peter too, people are skeptical about repainted cars for some reason and you only get cents in the dollar back on this type of spend.

Its nice though to finally see some 964s get showered with money. RSG has been good along with this board for helping here.

In 2005-2010 I felt alone spending 60K to revamp my 993 and add some personal touches. That included full glass out respray and some expensive factory classic grey interior upgrades like CF 3 spoke steering wheel, shifter, door handles and hand brake!

Granted things got a bit silly between 2012-2014 with modifications to suspension and brakes etc. probably another 40K was spent. I finished my CF interior project too and had alot of fun on the track. Car was proper quick on track too, just through handling improvements mainly as driver was novice. Doing my first Targa and track days definitely accelerated projects on the car.

A gearbox and diff rebuild along with new drive shafts, wheel bearings and CVs all round (plus uprights, tie rods, and factory new A arms with monoball inserts) were an additional 20K last year simply as preventative maintenance to give me 2-3 years of hassle free ownership with low bills while I was having my "mini retirement" and didnt have the income to stomach unexpected costs. of course I didnt anticipate the 991 GT3 values whould hold up so long and I would fall in love with going fast on track and squeezing the most fomr that car - so the 993 has languished with only 6000km drive last 12 months with 2 track days and a Targa and a few B road runs. However cost of ownership has been lower than ever with $1100 spent most of it on a service, fluids and a geo for targa.

I think 3-4 years ago we laughed when thinking about what I had spent on my car at that time. Today there are a couple of us who have pretty much caught up to where I was then. I have no doubt that if some folk here keep their cars another 4-5 years and continue to use them as intended then they will catch up further.

Its definitely great folks are investing in their cars. I go to CCS and see stuff in the carpark and on the hoist and Im constantly amazed how little people do to these cars apart from the bare minimum service. 20 years+ and they need some preventative attention. We are just lucky in NZ they dont rot out first. One good thing about the values firming is that people will hopefully now start to spend some money on them again...

P.S. Yes immediately picked up the wiper spindle location. Forward dating is over thank goodness! P.S. The lightening direct 993 GT2 look alikes were 964 cars too...as is Racing Rays old 993 look alike.

993 Targa

Here's another one for the, that seems like a lot of money pile.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=977025931

A GT2 in NZ being marketed by Dutton Garage at a price that seems to be well above UK prices even.

993 Targa

Double posted