Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
08-08-2014, 01:26 AM
Rennlist Member
BB is great fun and I think relatively safe because she doesn't do anything at warp speed, but yes ABS, air bags etc would be a plus.
08-08-2014, 01:35 AM
Rennlist Member
The original comment was kinda tongue in cheek playing off recent events.
If there wasn't an element of risk most of us wouldn't enjoy it.
Sometimes I wonder if people have lost their sense of humour around here....
If there wasn't an element of risk most of us wouldn't enjoy it.
Sometimes I wonder if people have lost their sense of humour around here....
08-08-2014, 01:47 AM
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2490569
I presumed she had ABS. Maybe she was a lighter, lower spec JDM one brought into NZ used? Yay if so.
Here is her safety rating:
http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/1994/Honda/Integra/
In short, the driver may not get a second chance in a decent shunt but at least BB is unlikely to hurt anyone she runs into.
(To be fair though, very very few light cars do well in real world crashes, since mass and momentum outweigh the factors driving NCAP type ratings. What has always stuck with me from real world crash research is that in a head-on between one car and another one twice the weight, the driver of the lighter one has an approximately 10 times higher chance of dying than the driver of the heavier one. On track most traffic is going in the same direction so the relative risk ought to be much lower.)
08-08-2014, 01:51 AM
Rennlist Member
Walter, Your fellow co-owners are doing a wonderful job of flat spotting BB's tyres. If She has ABS it isn't working !
08-08-2014, 01:54 AM
Drifting
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John. Ive attached below a screenshot from you lap. Initially I was under the impression that the pooled water in the yellow circle and the wet line where they yellow arrow is was the culprit for both Neil & Dougs Robert Ho challenging pirouette. Doug, John, Neil is this the area that is to blame or is it the water running on the left of the track in the red circle? My earlier comments about taking a different wet line higher on the left hand banked side of the track were based on the assumption the yellow areas are at fault. If this is indeed the case then Im sure the racers who have alot of wet track experience at HD can confer. Manfield has a similar issue and it was highlighted by both Ray and Jamie when we were there last NITT. The wet track line there is different and required caution. RSG has been lucky and run mostly dry track days in the last 18 months of existence. Obviously its not preferable running in the wet - after all we arent racing for points just circulating for fun, but Im thinking it may have come down in part to a lack of wet HD experience last weekend. It pretty difficult to correct your driving behaviour on a wet track if you dont know any different. Doug and Neil (ant may other RSGers there on the day) probably have between 700 and 1500 dry laps of HD each over the last 18 months. Hard to unlearn something when you arent aware of how the line should be run in the wet....
If my rear hadn't tracked just onto the rough on the RHS of the track at the top of turn 1 causing the rear to grip then spin the car radically shunting the front into the concrete wall, I'd have followed Neil's route down into the kitty litter.
One person at work watching the video with me commented that I was going so much faster into turn 1 than everyone else. The reasons was I'd spun through the braking zone (doing most of the distance backwards with brakes locked) and reducing speed by probably 50%. Another good reason not to post this publicly I guess. So easy to be critical from an arm chair.
Lessons learned:
1. Don't run track tyres in the wet, especially when there is water lying on the track.
2. Dramatically cut speed in the wet. Control is lost in an instant.
3. Pre-tension and lock safety belt before going out of you don't have a harness. I reckon this saved me a lot of bruising. I was locked very tight across my body taking two big shunts with no adverse effect on me.
4. If you go out uninsured, be in a financial position where you can afford a total loss or don't take the risk. Someone here could calculate the risk on a wet day between Ron, Neil, and myself. I calculate one crash per wet day. Imagine Neil's loss if he'd tracked like me and his insurance coy had said "no" this time. I'd have been covered if this wasn't a timed event but as far as prestigio are concerned this was a timed event, therefore a race. Fair enough.
5. If you're going to crash, do it in a Porsche. They're solid and safe IMO.
08-08-2014, 01:57 AM
Drifting
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Add a smily face or something to make it look like you're joking Macca. It was hard to tell with that statement. I've lost some of my sense of humour when taking about spinning, crashing, safety.... But will be back to normal when time heals the hurt.
08-08-2014, 02:01 AM
Rennlist Member
08-08-2014, 02:04 AM
Rennlist Member
08-08-2014, 02:06 AM
Rennlist Member
Or slip sliding away. Too many choices.
08-08-2014, 02:09 AM
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ultimately, running road tyres only allows you to go faster before you aquaplane. Every tyre has a limit to how much water it can pump away, so the lesson is really to keep your speed below the limit of the tyre you have.
08-08-2014, 02:17 AM
Typically I hug the RHS of the slight turns on the "back straight" but I believe I was tracking more towards the centre, perhaps 1/3rd of the way across the track from the RHS in the turns, tracking more centre track between the corners. However, it's now a few days ago and the many replays in my head may not be accurate to reality. I figure I travelled a long way down the straight backwards, maybe 80-150 metres I'm guessing. Slow spin. I didn't "hit a puddle" it was a quick soft aquaplane where the car turned from tracking to a hovercraft. This looks different to Neil who appears to hit a body of deeper water, referring to the "splash" which would have slower the right hand side of the car pushing him into a high speed spin. He spun 5 times. I "drifted" one spin, over a similar distance.
If my rear hadn't tracked just onto the rough on the RHS of the track at the top of turn 1 causing the rear to grip then spin the car radically shunting the front into the concrete wall, I'd have followed Neil's route down into the kitty litter.
One person at work watching the video with me commented that I was going so much faster into turn 1 than everyone else. The reasons was I'd spun through the braking zone (doing most of the distance backwards with brakes locked) and reducing speed by probably 50%. Another good reason not to post this publicly I guess. So easy to be critical from an arm chair.
Lessons learned:
1. Don't run track tyres in the wet, especially when there is water lying on the track.
2. Dramatically cut speed in the wet. Control is lost in an instant.
3. Pre-tension and lock safety belt before going out of you don't have a harness. I reckon this saved me a lot of bruising. I was locked very tight across my body taking two big shunts with no adverse effect on me.
4. If you go out uninsured, be in a financial position where you can afford a total loss or don't take the risk. Someone here could calculate the risk on a wet day between Ron, Neil, and myself. I calculate one crash per wet day. Imagine Neil's loss if he'd tracked like me and his insurance coy had said "no" this time. I'd have been covered if this wasn't a timed event but as far as prestigio are concerned this was a timed event, therefore a race. Fair enough.
5. If you're going to crash, do it in a Porsche. They're solid and safe IMO.
If my rear hadn't tracked just onto the rough on the RHS of the track at the top of turn 1 causing the rear to grip then spin the car radically shunting the front into the concrete wall, I'd have followed Neil's route down into the kitty litter.
One person at work watching the video with me commented that I was going so much faster into turn 1 than everyone else. The reasons was I'd spun through the braking zone (doing most of the distance backwards with brakes locked) and reducing speed by probably 50%. Another good reason not to post this publicly I guess. So easy to be critical from an arm chair.
Lessons learned:
1. Don't run track tyres in the wet, especially when there is water lying on the track.
2. Dramatically cut speed in the wet. Control is lost in an instant.
3. Pre-tension and lock safety belt before going out of you don't have a harness. I reckon this saved me a lot of bruising. I was locked very tight across my body taking two big shunts with no adverse effect on me.
4. If you go out uninsured, be in a financial position where you can afford a total loss or don't take the risk. Someone here could calculate the risk on a wet day between Ron, Neil, and myself. I calculate one crash per wet day. Imagine Neil's loss if he'd tracked like me and his insurance coy had said "no" this time. I'd have been covered if this wasn't a timed event but as far as prestigio are concerned this was a timed event, therefore a race. Fair enough.
5. If you're going to crash, do it in a Porsche. They're solid and safe IMO.
08-08-2014, 02:26 AM
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you use a CG Lock? I used one for a while in the 964 and liked the extra security, but the way it sat with the seat, belt, and my body it felt like there was a good chance of punching a hole in my gut in an incident, so I ended up ditching it. I've got two lying around home unused if anyone wants to give them a go, otherwise they'll eventually end up in the bin.
08-08-2014, 02:34 AM
Drifting
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great summary and very sound advice. Re point 3, I too put my seat back, lock the 3 point belt with a tug, then slide the seat forward to wedge myself in (and I also use a lock to hold the lap sash tight) so pleased to hear it helps. From the posted video, it was Neil's left rear that stepped out with the big splash, resulting in a long clockwise double spin, 720 degrees of it on track, with another 90 degrees in the kitty litter to make it 810 all up. Hopefully it's a long time on this thread before we see to many more of these spins...
We'll never know all the details for sure from watching the pretty rough videos although it is good to have them.
08-08-2014, 02:37 AM
Drifting
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not intending any disrespect to the owner of this 964 but I could do with this car right now
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...6-07_1044a.jpg
BTW I'd upload the photo if RL would fix the month long problem now with the "passer error" uploading attachments from their IOS app on ipad or iphone.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...6-07_1044a.jpg
BTW I'd upload the photo if RL would fix the month long problem now with the "passer error" uploading attachments from their IOS app on ipad or iphone.