Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
08-08-2014, 07:02 AM
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^^
Very interesting Doug and sorry it is a bit late to add to the conversation/analysis of the spins we experienced.
For what it's worth I would like to add some comments.
1. I had changed my wheels the day.before and put on my Michelin super sports. Much more tread than my track biased trofeo R s. Thank heavens . They are much better in the wet. There is a big difference between the traction you can achieve with road tyres and race wets. Race wets are great.
2. My line generally, in the dry, is close to the pit wall entrance . Cutting the corner as it were. Nigel , said he thought a wider line is better as there is less lateral force on the car even if the distance travelled is longer. Makes sense. His line allows a straighter breaking line and with little lateral force. Doug, your line was about a third of the way across the track from the pit wall entrance and I think I was maybe a bit closer to the wall. Immediately after the wall the car enters the grid formation and it was at this point, maybe at grid position # 7 that I lost it. It is at this point that there is still some lateral force on the car and could have resulted in both of us spinning clockwise.
3. The speed of the initial spin seems to me to suggest that there certainly was significant lateral momentum once traction was lost. I don't remember seeing standing water or streams and , Macca , the point I spun was way passed the areas you show on your photo.
4. I had felt loss of traction that day in two constant areas of the track. First and worst was about 100 m from the breaking marker on the straight before the sweeper. Second was close to the right side of the track at the breaking marker before corner 2. There was an obvious and avoidable stream of water before the first hairpin. I did not, before the spin, feel any loss of traction/ warning signs, breaking for corner 1 . Which is scary.
5.i think I was going a bit faster than the previous laps. Speed is the main factor obviously but the lack of warning/ suddenness of the spin makes it so difficult to judge what is the correct/ maximum speed you can attempt.
6. I was nowhere near changing gears or heal and toeing, which I do for corner 1. I think I was just coming off the petrol, lost the traction on the front and then the back whipped around.
6. Insurance is an issue and I think we need to be careful posting too much information re these events as there could be issues with some insurance companies. Does PCNZ have any liability if there is a serious incident? Who calls the sprints off if conditions are too bad? Should they have done so on Sunday? How do the videos posted affect the resale /value of our vehicles?
Totally agree with you Doug , porsche is the best to be in for safety. Speed is the problem, drive to the conditions, take a wider line , like Tim and the other race cars on the straight and slow down.
I don't know if that helps as is all very obvious. All I know is that I am very lucky and the car is fine. Sorry Doug.
Very interesting Doug and sorry it is a bit late to add to the conversation/analysis of the spins we experienced.
For what it's worth I would like to add some comments.
1. I had changed my wheels the day.before and put on my Michelin super sports. Much more tread than my track biased trofeo R s. Thank heavens . They are much better in the wet. There is a big difference between the traction you can achieve with road tyres and race wets. Race wets are great.
2. My line generally, in the dry, is close to the pit wall entrance . Cutting the corner as it were. Nigel , said he thought a wider line is better as there is less lateral force on the car even if the distance travelled is longer. Makes sense. His line allows a straighter breaking line and with little lateral force. Doug, your line was about a third of the way across the track from the pit wall entrance and I think I was maybe a bit closer to the wall. Immediately after the wall the car enters the grid formation and it was at this point, maybe at grid position # 7 that I lost it. It is at this point that there is still some lateral force on the car and could have resulted in both of us spinning clockwise.
3. The speed of the initial spin seems to me to suggest that there certainly was significant lateral momentum once traction was lost. I don't remember seeing standing water or streams and , Macca , the point I spun was way passed the areas you show on your photo.
4. I had felt loss of traction that day in two constant areas of the track. First and worst was about 100 m from the breaking marker on the straight before the sweeper. Second was close to the right side of the track at the breaking marker before corner 2. There was an obvious and avoidable stream of water before the first hairpin. I did not, before the spin, feel any loss of traction/ warning signs, breaking for corner 1 . Which is scary.
5.i think I was going a bit faster than the previous laps. Speed is the main factor obviously but the lack of warning/ suddenness of the spin makes it so difficult to judge what is the correct/ maximum speed you can attempt.
6. I was nowhere near changing gears or heal and toeing, which I do for corner 1. I think I was just coming off the petrol, lost the traction on the front and then the back whipped around.
6. Insurance is an issue and I think we need to be careful posting too much information re these events as there could be issues with some insurance companies. Does PCNZ have any liability if there is a serious incident? Who calls the sprints off if conditions are too bad? Should they have done so on Sunday? How do the videos posted affect the resale /value of our vehicles?
Totally agree with you Doug , porsche is the best to be in for safety. Speed is the problem, drive to the conditions, take a wider line , like Tim and the other race cars on the straight and slow down.
I don't know if that helps as is all very obvious. All I know is that I am very lucky and the car is fine. Sorry Doug.
Probably timely to close the book on the incident on this public forum and revert to RSG board for any other detailed discussions including the updates on Lola etc
Last edited by Macca; 08-08-2014 at 07:23 AM.
08-08-2014, 07:13 AM
Rennlist Member
Whooohoo. The main edits of the SITT are finished. 19 videos in total. Over the next week or so I will put together a highlight package and then it's all go for 7/9.
08-08-2014, 07:47 AM
I thought it was strange as well -- particularly since it wasn't even a Playday, but rather a private track hire. I'm sure a quiet e-mail to Playday would get it taken down.
All this talk about wet driving has reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a while. When I spun off the sweeper into the tyre wall on a wet day last year, my impression afterwards was that I could have saved it except a) I was slow to react and b) I didn't really know what to do to recover. In contrast, when I was out with George in his Boxster one wet day and the back stepped out, his response was short, sharp and effective. I'd like to have more practice in that situation, but without the risk. Maybe we should find an instructor who knows what they're doing, hire the skidpan, turn the sprinklers on and see if we can learn anything? It wouldn't be the same as the main straight at high speeds but I think I'd still get a lot out of it.
All this talk about wet driving has reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a while. When I spun off the sweeper into the tyre wall on a wet day last year, my impression afterwards was that I could have saved it except a) I was slow to react and b) I didn't really know what to do to recover. In contrast, when I was out with George in his Boxster one wet day and the back stepped out, his response was short, sharp and effective. I'd like to have more practice in that situation, but without the risk. Maybe we should find an instructor who knows what they're doing, hire the skidpan, turn the sprinklers on and see if we can learn anything? It wouldn't be the same as the main straight at high speeds but I think I'd still get a lot out of it.
08-08-2014, 07:57 AM
Three Wheelin'
Macca M2 and 'Ring instruction sounds good to me. I would be keen on a proper multi day 'Ring instructed course though depends on when you finalise. I am close to pressing the button on the Tuthill Ice Driving course in Sweden in their historic rally 911s Jan 2015.
I am going to have to cut back on Targa commitments maybe
I am going to have to cut back on Targa commitments maybe
08-08-2014, 08:06 AM
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Cheers guys. Thanks for the advice along the way too.
I'm very happy with the car and was lucky to be in the right spot at the right time in terms of jumping at it. Collecting it today was a great experience and did get manage to get some drive time in. Four seasons in one day here today so only a few scrappy iPhone pictures inbetween the rain.
It's an NZ new from Team European in Wellington. I gather it's spent the majority of its time here in Wgtn with stints serviced at Team E, now Armstrongs and Powerhaus although I haven’t seen it around. Still very original condition. The interior is more of a red based brown than the chocolate colour it looked like in the advert.
Will definitely look into those models thanks Macca.
Plan is to hold onto the car but get out and use it!
I'm very happy with the car and was lucky to be in the right spot at the right time in terms of jumping at it. Collecting it today was a great experience and did get manage to get some drive time in. Four seasons in one day here today so only a few scrappy iPhone pictures inbetween the rain.
It's an NZ new from Team European in Wellington. I gather it's spent the majority of its time here in Wgtn with stints serviced at Team E, now Armstrongs and Powerhaus although I haven’t seen it around. Still very original condition. The interior is more of a red based brown than the chocolate colour it looked like in the advert.
Will definitely look into those models thanks Macca.
Plan is to hold onto the car but get out and use it!
08-08-2014, 08:53 AM
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08-08-2014, 08:57 AM
Great buy Like . Well done . I have always wanted one. Enjoy it and use it as intended. I must admit the brown looking interior on TM was unusual and I didn't recall seeing that colour before . A more reddish tinge would make more sense .
Such a lot of work on the videos john, I am looking forward to seeing the end result. Well done
Such a lot of work on the videos john, I am looking forward to seeing the end result. Well done
08-08-2014, 09:11 AM
Rennlist Member
Macca M2 and 'Ring instruction sounds good to me. I would be keen on a proper multi day 'Ring instructed course though depends on when you finalise. I am close to pressing the button on the Tuthill Ice Driving course in Sweden in their historic rally 911s Jan 2015.
I am going to have to cut back on Targa commitments maybe
I am going to have to cut back on Targa commitments maybe
Ill most definitely put you down as a maybe and keep you posted!
08-08-2014, 05:03 PM
Rennlist Member
Delivering packages in supermarket car parks feels very dodgy, but the important thing is that Ralf is on his way to deal with BB and I get an extra three hours to sort out my house. Hopefully BB will be ready for the 16th as of today.
For those of you that didn't see the post, Walter is looking to take BB out on the 23rd. Co-owners are welcome to join him, particularly those yet to post a time.
Lastly, as posted yesterday we have taken $3,000 in for BB and spent the lot. When the next set of pads and/or repairs are required we will need to levy co-owners. A good reason to get there and get your money's worth. If you don't someone else will!!!
For those of you that didn't see the post, Walter is looking to take BB out on the 23rd. Co-owners are welcome to join him, particularly those yet to post a time.
Lastly, as posted yesterday we have taken $3,000 in for BB and spent the lot. When the next set of pads and/or repairs are required we will need to levy co-owners. A good reason to get there and get your money's worth. If you don't someone else will!!!
08-08-2014, 05:08 PM
Drifting
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Delivering packages in supermarket car parks feels very dodgy, but the important thing is that Ralf is on his way to deal with BB and I get an extra three hours to sort out my house. Hopefully BB will be ready for the 16th as of today. For those of you that didn't see the post, Walter is looking to take BB out on the 23rd. Co-owners are welcome to join him, particularly those yet to post a time. Lastly, as posted yesterday we have taken $3,000 in for BB and spent the lot. When the next set of pads and/or repairs are required we will need to levy co-owners. A good reason to get there and get your money's worth. If you don't someone else will!!!
08-08-2014, 05:16 PM
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08-08-2014, 05:24 PM
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With so many of us another $50-$100 each would create quite a good kitty for further maintenance. How are the tyres lasting? I imagine that with them getting a bit flat spotted as well they may be a target soon? How nice to be able to replace a set of tyres for hundreds of dollars only :-)
One thought for later, a very unformed thought right now , and only if others were in agreement, is to enter BB in a 2kcup race with the two fastest drivers, right now Chris and Pete, representing RSG.
We could make a day of it. Some provide support and others fire up the BBQ. Based on the other 2k cup cars those two were passing on Playday I think they'd do well.