Originally Posted by Kiwi Carguy

Now if it was a GT3 I think I'd have no problem letter the 993 go.

Originally Posted by peterC2S

Apart from the fact you'd be competing with Paul on the GT3 and he'd have the exact same 993 dilemma.

Originally Posted by John McM

Playing Devil's advocate, having a piece of automotive sculpture in the garage is a luxury when it's not the one getting the use. Been there done that. If there's another Dougie Northland run some day I don't see Paul or any others for that matter bringing their 'sculptures' up, as a first choice. Actually, maybe that could be a focus of a future run.

Originally Posted by Macca

You have probably hit the nail on the head on both points. If the choice exists, the more modern gear is better suited for sustained dawn raids and long periods of touring. Think SITT (5000km touring 2 up and gear for 2 weeks plus 4-5 full track days and no need for support). If you only have one Porsche then you make it work regardless of compromise. I guess its just the logical improvement of the breed. That being said the idea of an old-timers rally raid is always appealing. They are photogenic and fun.

Originally Posted by O2GO

Sounds like the start of a plan. If everyone is driving an air cooled old timer then it makes sense and sure is fun. Done it before aye John except Cape Reinga was part of the route :-D

Originally Posted by John McM

Break those and you get to ride the Boxster of shame

Originally Posted by Kiwi Carguy

I think he's after a 997 GT3 isn't he? He doesn't want a 996 one they're crap

Originally Posted by kiwi 911

James - you need to take this opportunity to correct the error of your ways, see the light....... (and buy a 964..........)

Originally Posted by kiwi 911

James - you need to take this opportunity to correct the error of your ways, see the light....... (and buy a 964..........)

Originally Posted by Kiwi Carguy

Interesting your car is listed as "Blue" http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=x993x

Originally Posted by Macca

Jamie. Agree. Nice problem to have.

The reason I see guys with 7.2RS and likewise buying older/classic cars to "drive" has little to do with driving enjoyment and much to do with the fact these pure driving/track machines have become far too quickly "collectable" and in some markets "valuable". Its a kill joy for a driving enthusiast unless his wallet runs deep, his mentality is more carefree or he just doesn't care about all that stuff. Name a 997.2 GT3RS owner in NZ that you know of that regularly thrashes the pants off his car on road and track?? I know of 4 x 991 GT3 and a stack of 996 GT3 used in this manner almost weekly if not monthly but I know of few RS variants used on track full stop exception being Robert D and his nephew with the black/orange 997.1 GT3RS who we see occasionally on track. RS no longer stands for RennSport in my mind - at least in NZ almost none of them will see a track regularly. They are bought new mostly for weekend drives and status by their first owners these days. After that they used to go to enthusiasts but increasingly thats now collectors. Im generalising of course but you get the point - why is there not a single RS in the 55+ string RSG?

I don't buy into "its too fast for the road theory". In my opinion its BS. When we go for a back road drive whether it be Rons Sunday run, a few of us heading to Waipu or a Northland Douggie dawn raid we are always driving "fast". Whether it be 991 GT3, 993, Cayman R or Boxster RS60 I can say hand on heart non of us are waiting around. If you saw the grin on Johns face coming out of the Cayman R asfter chasing me over a 12km series of 25-55 corners yesterday you would never say "John your car is too fast, it must spoil your enjoyment". Quite the contrary. And Im happy to go on record and say infact these cars are way safer to push the envelope with. There is more room for recovering errors in the modern metal and the designs are far better for surviving an "incident". Id have to say as a lover of fast road work and the track that over the weekend there was ZERO moments I felt my car was "too fast for the road" and as a 14+ years owner of an aircooled 993 and one of the most vehement supporters of that model I cant say that there wasnt a single time I wished I was rather in the 993 on saturday or sunday...unless you count looking at the cars in the car park on driving behind Pauls 993 sexy ***....then the 993 was clearly the most gorgeous car IMO!

I think the "too fast for the road" thing is often used by those who dont own the latter metal. Each has its place without doubt and running at more sane speeds the older cars certainly make you work harder for your supper and are super involving. But speed is the drug here - to deny the attraction of whacking down the box of a modern 911 with the engine flaring to 8000+ rpm the front end gripping and the brakes hauling you down so effectively again and again is without doubt addictive. To do it with a broader breadth of capability and safety, reduced driver fatigue and error is something often overlooked.

Lastly, Id hesitate to say the reason the older cars are suddenly in vogue is "fashion". The newer cars like 996GT3 & 996TT etc have been "too fast" (if you subscribe to that theory) for 1.5 decades but the older cars have languished. Its like property in Auckland. Nothing has become better about the house down the road that was offered for 750K 5 years ago and is now 1.2 M only popularity/fashion thus demand and price. Its the same cheaply clad timber framed chicken box on 360m2 with a single garage you cant fit a Echo in that it was in 2009 only now there are four Chinese families turning up to the auction bidding it for a relative in Shanghai that wants to move some Yuan out of China "de risk" his domestic situation in a market he has been told is low risk, high capital gain with no associated taxes and a (over) strong currency!

Old 911s have become fashionable because we have suddenly believe they are wonderfully evocative (Porsche trades on this retro thing now remember!), the magazines and car forums say it must be so, we want then for status and to feel we are "true enthusiasts". Sure they are quaint, can be fun to drive when they function properly and they are (at the present time) beyond the depreciation curve but you have to be honest with yourself about why you want one of these as they come with compromises. 964 are the gateway drug into these hallowed halls because they are "affordable" a reason we see so many of them in our groups - but by virtue of their own popularity they too will eventually succumb to being "expensive" and many eventually "too valuable to drive". Hopefully now but probably so and what a shame!

Good news is you will soon beable to "3D print" your dream retro 1:1 scale 911 for looking at in teh garage for under $5000. Its only around the corner :-). Or better yet (and more likely sooner) the international classic car bubble fuelled by cheap credit and "risky blue chip investments" will crash and the prices will become affordable again for enthusiasts like they have before.

Just some thoughts at the beginning of the week to get you all jumping. It opinion of course, very personal views, but with a foot invested each camp I think its at least as valid an opinion as the next poster on this board. Not saying its right.

Originally Posted by John McM

What's the Cayman plan? You already have one. Just finished a couple of superb morning runs in the R. I can't get over how good it was through the twisties. As long as Macca couldn't find a place to use all of his horsepower the R was on his tail. The brakes were progressive, and suspension never felt too soft or too hard. Perfect.

Originally Posted by Macca

Headsets were received last week and tested up very well. Chris B did some more extensive testing on them the week before. They are very good value for money, well made and thought out etc especially for the outlay...