Macca

Paul & Johns advice is correct IMO. NVH comes on gradually through a collective of changes. On the smooth inner city tarmac you dont notice any real increase in noise. On the chip seal general tyre roar blinds you to most of the extra NVH too. The exception I will say is long distance travel on chip seal when the extra NVH does eventually wear on you (think 3+ hours travelling). I have monoballs + camber plates + RS uprights/tierods + solid rear suspension tub mounts + PSS10 + all rear control arms in rose jointed dog bones + RS adjustable sway bars + 3 piece camber pin lock out strut brace + ply fron A arm inserts + poly roll bar bushes + rear RS lower arm bearing inserts - and I do find the car more tiring to drive on the open road. After 14 days driving 4800 road KM and 1200 track KM on the 993 last year (1800 of the road km were on R comps) my wife and I were well over the 993, didnt want to spend a moment longer in it and didnt drive it again for another 6 months!

I have the Rennline camber plates (front) and monoball tops front and rear and I think they are a worthwhile upgrade if your top mounts are shot. I did not find they increased NVH measurably but they just have another small level increase to the feedback through the wheel. All this stuff is just gradual. My car isnt any more powerful than a stock Varioram version of the same car but the enhanced suspension,improved feedback through the wheel, throttle sensitivity on Motec, quicker revving engine, and a bunch of other enhancements make it easier to place on track and run to the edge of it performance envelope. Im very happy with the Rennline products and have used them extensively throughout the car.

Im not sure if any of these pictures are relevant to you in your PSS10/monoball install but thought Id post a bunch incase anyone is looking at gthese upgrades in the future. I do have a well subscribed thread on my rebuild over on the 993 board but it hasnt been updated for a year or more...

Macca

I should add I have the FDM Golden Rod ball jointed shift rod kit connected to the OEM RS shifter, OEM 993RS Cup transmission mounts with Wevo blue engine mounts all of which I guess contribute to NVH. Its definitely no limo. Jamie spent 2000km in the car during Targa with a few brief stint at the wheel and has a more factory type 993 so can probably comment on the difference in the feel. My only reference is 996.1 GT3. To me my 993 now feels much more like that car on the road...

pcarplayer

Thanks guys. Good points. Currently i only have Wevo Black engine mounts and solid front arm bushings. All other bushings and mount points are stock. I don't want a car that is not roadable or so solid i'm bouncing around like crazy thing. I dear say i have a way to go to get to this point. Ideally i want a middle ground where its comfortable enough for the road but can have some rigidity dialed in for the track. It is ostensibly a road car

Macca

Mate, you dont have to worry for a while yet. If the Rennline monoball top mount kit is similar cost to the factory OEM rubber op mount assemblies then this is a no brainer upgrade. Adding the camber plates up front is a personal thing but for little additional cost you win it back on geo if the car sees regular changes. It now takes Peter Alder 2 hour to do a full four wheel geo change on my 993 so around $175 whereas before monoballs, rose jointed rear subframe links and camber plates that would have been 4-5 hrs with a kinematic tool etc. Over the course of changing geo from track to targa road to track again Ive probably paid for those camber plates. They sure look nice too ;-). If you are worried about longevity grab a spare pair of race bearings for those top mounts when you put your order in (although Im sure that size can be found in NZ).

Other than the poly bushes, upgraded tranny and engine mounts and the PSS10 plus mono ball top mounts and camber plates there is little more I would do other than a stiffer ARB (but I think you have that already) and possibly a EFM golden rod shifter (but I think this needs a lower cover modification for a C4). A good geo, corner weighting maybe and some decent tyres and you will immediately be seeing a very noticeable difference on the track.

The last part of the puzzle, and this may be more for the committed 993 guys as I believe the 964 has a vastly different rear suspension set up, is to go for hiem jointed control arms (turnbuckles, dog bones etc). Once set up these are reliable and durable (assumes dust covers) and will not bump out of setting like the 993 factory kinematic set up is prone to doing. They do however remove all rubber from the rear assembly so they do transmit a little more NVH....

pcarplayer

Macca, I've read that the Rennline monoballs and the shims they use add another 20mm to the ride height of the 964. Did it do the same for the 993?

Macca

Yes it did. I have my car set to 993RS height and before the front monoballs I had around another 12mm left I could have dropped the front of the car. After the install I was 5mm above RS ride height and had basically used up all my threads. This was perplexing. In the end we wound the keeper springs up on their perches by 7mm to allow the adjustment needed to go to RS height but there is now no more adjustment left (I wouldnt want to go lower than RS height on NZ roads in any case but it was a bit of a surprise). This does not apply to the rears as teh rears had 30-40mm of thread left at RS heights so had plenty of room for adjustment. The issue I was told was that the front monoballs sit higher than the factory rubber perches. I do not know if this is specific to the Rennline product or if ERP or others allow more adjustment but it is worth considering if you are intending to take the car RS height or below on PSS10. If you have a link to the discussion on this on the 964 board Id like to read about it as at the time I could find little mention of the issue on the 993 board...

pcarplayer

I have started a thread canvassing opinions and one member posted a link to a thread with a very little information.

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ns-please.html

It doesn't seem like a particularly popular mod, though i don't know why. I suspect most guys just throw their car in the shop and have the coilover replaced without too much consideration for the mounts. Perhaps on top of the $$$ for the coilovers another $k on the mounts is a bridge too far.

There has been some mention of Stromski. Are you familiar with them?

Maxem

Gettin' closer, just one more duck to get in a row. It's all about timing.

Maxem

Does anyone have any intell on that Venetian blue 1986 Carrera 3.2 that was just on TM? It sat for ages because it has Had a RHD conversion and is a little bit rusty. ex Germany, ex UK. 169 miles. I have made contact with the owner but would like to know if there is more knowledge of this car out there.

O2GO

Warwick, you might like to check in with Matt (mjg) who did a great job upgrading Lola's suspension after, I suspect, some pretty solid research. Lola has KWV3 coilovers with rennline adjustable top mounts. Apparently there was a bit more work than expected to fit the KWs to the mounts. You can check her out first hand any time.

Macca

I got on line and had a look at all the threads. I think its inherent in almost any top mount/monoball solution this problem because of the need for a washer and a bearing on the top of the strut which will always take up some space.

I dont think this is the issue on coilovers many refer to it being on Bilstein HD & springs. The PSS10 have a keeper spring then a main spring (which does the work). Peter compressed my keeper spring by 7-10mm or so to get me down at or just below RS height at the front. This worked fine as a solution and he was adamant there was no issue with it. The keeper spring is mostly compressed now, but the main spring has its full movement. Might affect pre load a little I guess. If you aren't going much below RS I think you can use the Rennline gear fine..

Macca

Press Emago lifted from new 991.2 911 tonight:

Carrera S makes 369lbf (30lbft more than just released 991.1 GT3 RS). 414bhp with RWS as option. Ring time is 6s faster than current GT4 and 9s slower than GT3. GTS model will likely increase power to 445 bhp and 380lbft for 7.30 ring time.

Its another step function in the evolution of the 911. As significant as 993 to 996 really. I dont much see the point any more personally...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...clusive-studio

Macca

Garry. What happened?? Its $$$

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-944812635.htm

pcarplayer

Thanks Doug. I think the KW's have more adjustment that the Bilsteins. Its interesting they weren't a straight fit. The mounts were probably developed before KW's became more common solution

I also understand the Rennlines need a spring hat for the PSS10's adding less height adjustability and more cost. Thanks for taking out the strut for the pic Macca Oh wait you have a photo for all occasions! Thankfully! I need to start staking more pictures...

Garry D

Yes Mark it's the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ everyone seems to want a restored car for
$80 k , that's ok the car is a good original car less the fenders .

I'm ok to meet the market , there is no rush .