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Bernard buddy, please go back and read what I said about the Bernoulli Principal and why I changed to a spool valve many many months ago..there are no ***** or ball valve, long gone.....
Bernard buddy, please go back and read what I said about the Bernoulli Principal and why I changed to a spool valve many many months ago..there are no ***** or ball valve, long gone.....
Ok I missed that, sorry.
But even so I still see the possibility as I described since these valves are located
A. At the pump end of the port upstream
B. higher than the port.
Ok I missed that, sorry.
But even so I still see the possibility as I described since these valves are located
A. At the pump end of the port upstream
B. higher than the port.
No,, its just a violent slosh coming "down" from a 56 degree angle to level....I purposely put minimum baffling in the UIDS, and now it needs more baffling and a bit more sophisticated baffling than usual..( plus the float valve will keep oil level even higher.. a nice plus)
Yes it is compatible and would have no negative effects on the UIDS... ( only positive effects) ..
But that product is quite a lot more labor involved to install. The valve cover has to be removed and some machine work done to it to complete the install...It has been shown to "help" in stabilizing oil pressure but is nowhere close a solution by its'self..
I have been asked to explain the difference between "gauge pressure" and "absolute pressure"....and how it relates to oil pressure and the UIDS design...
Gauge pressures are what we commonly use and see around us, but it doesn't tell the whole story...
Absolute pressures are used in laboratory settings, or in scientific work ,research, or design, and can get confused with gauge pressures if you don't know the difference..
Here is a picture showing two quality gauges, the left one reads in gauge pressure (PSIg) and the right one reads in absolute pressure ( PSIa)..
Gauge pressure starts at Atmospheric pressure /1 unit of gravity ( 1G) and reads 0 PSIg
Absolute pressure starts in outer space at 0 PSIa and reads 14.7 psia on Earth at Sea level...( 1G) ...
Like in an example I mentioned in an earlier post, if you have a sump of liquid and place a glass tube in it below the surface and remove the air/Atmospheric pressure from the glass tube, the liquid will be pushed up the tube about 34 ft for water or since oil is slightly lighter than water it will be pushed up 40 ft...in pump technology this 40ft is called head pressure or "head"...
The only thing stopping the oil from being pushed up out of the sump is the oil pump and/or any air/atmospheric pressure that has crept in ...Once the oil pump starts to turn and removes the air and is "primed" then oil is delivered to the pump at about 13.x psia pressure. or 39 ft x inches of head ..( you have to subtract the distant from oil level to pump inlet which in the case engine off is only about an inch.)
Here is a diagram showing the oil level when engine is not running and oil level at 7k rpm. The red X is where the oil pump inlet is located .. and the red rectangles are the pick-ups for central pick-up and for Twin Tunnel Port UIDS..
So when running the oil is being pushed from the sump into the oil pump at about 13.x psia or "39 ft x inches of head" from about 1G vertical gravity force ( must subtract .2 psi for AOS function and a few inches for the distance from oil level to pump inlet)..
And when in a Lateral turn of 1G the force is now INCREASED on the oil surface pushing the oil up to the pump and also the distance from oil level to pump inlet has DECREASED. due to lateral g changing the level to a 45* angle..So there is a 1G vertical and a 1G lateral force placed on the oil ...
It should also be noted that at normal 1G gravity under atmospheric pressure that 1 cubic inch of oil weighs .03 LBS and as G-force raises, so does the weight of the oil..at 2G of force ...1 cubic inch of oil will weigh .06 lbs....
The increase in pressure going into the oil pump inlet will effect the oil pump outlet pressures, more so at the lower pressures than at the higher pressures and explains why some people with UIDS has reported seeing high pressures when in turns with UIDS..
Also when reading the factory gauge, or even the digital gauges used in the "data" collection, the "absolute pressure" is actually 1 bar higher than shown..
ie.. P_ absolute=P_ gauge+1 Bar
I don't have any data to post as of yet but I wanted to share my experience with you so far. My car has always read lower oiI pressure than what I've seen around here. The stock gauge shows 2.5 - 3.0 bar, up to temp at highway speed. Around corners and freeway transitions, I can get the gauge to drop down to 1.5bar. I'm sure my car has other underlying issues that will need to be addressed at some point. I installed my UIDS last weekend and under the same conditions, the gauge now reads 4.0 - 4.2 bar. Going straight, high speed corner, low speed corner, it doesn't matter. The pressure is stable and higher than what it was before. That's an immediate win for me.
I took the car on a 600 miles road trip for a work convention and the pressure was great the whole time. At this point, I'm feeling pretty confident. I decided signing up for an autocross would be a great way to see if I can really upset the oil pressure. The autocross course last Sunday was about .65 miles long and consisted of long sweepers, decreasing radiuses, 2 slaloms, and a couple straight where you could bang limiter in 2nd or up shift to 3rd for 2 seconds. The times I could look down mid corner, the pressure was at 4.2 - 4.5 bar. Slaloms and drift transitions didn't seem to affect the reading on the gauge. Yes, I'm that jack a** that will drift at an autocross.
The next step from here, for me anyways, is to take it on the track. As a driver, having confidence in your vehicle is an important factor in going fast. Most people go faster in cars that are easier to drive than cars in their fastest form. If the vehicle doesn't feel good or you have to constantly watch your gauges, you're not going to push the car. I can't wait to see how my 996 compares to all my BMW track cars I've owned in the past. It'll be fun to run some data acquisition and compare the results to the data I've collected from my BMWs. It's essentially like racing yourself in different cars. I'm thankful the UIDs exists because my relationship with my 996 has completely changed. Previously, it was like being married to a 10 and never sleeping with your wife. I like going fast and now I can unapologetically drive it hard. So with that said, there is no buyers remorse here. I look forward to updating you all after my next track day.
Thanks for your first impressions Geoff, I know the feeling your talking about....
I got that feeling way back when I was posting the videos of doing figure 8's in a big parking lot and doing mad dashes down "Toes of the Dragon" with "real live analogue pressure gauge" tapped to the windshield and my phone on record, and was even running over a quart low on oil purposely...
No matter how hard I tried even over a quart low I could not get even a little bobble out of the oil pressure...That gave me the warm fuzzies that has only increased every time I drive ...yes I have a whole new outlook/feeling on the 996/m96 ....and it feels good..
It took someone else in a purpose built car in Extreme Track Competition to show me where I could make improvements...
Once that is done I will be looking for even more Extreme Environment , if it can be found....
Similar experience with respect to oil pressure under more normal driving conditions as Geoff.T here. Glad to see others are seeing improvements on AND off the track. Looking forward to future updates to the UIDS!
I don't have any data to post as of yet but I wanted to share my experience with you so far. My car has always read lower oiI pressure than what I've seen around here. The stock gauge shows 2.5 - 3.0 bar, up to temp at highway speed. Around corners and freeway transitions, I can get the gauge to drop down to 1.5bar. I'm sure my car has other underlying issues that will need to be addressed at some point. I installed my UIDS last weekend and under the same conditions, the gauge now reads 4.0 - 4.2 bar. Going straight, high speed corner, low speed corner, it doesn't matter. The pressure is stable and higher than what it was before. That's an immediate win for me.
I took the car on a 600 miles road trip for a work convention and the pressure was great the whole time. At this point, I'm feeling pretty confident. I decided signing up for an autocross would be a great way to see if I can really upset the oil pressure. The autocross course last Sunday was about .65 miles long and consisted of long sweepers, decreasing radiuses, 2 slaloms, and a couple straight where you could bang limiter in 2nd or up shift to 3rd for 2 seconds. The times I could look down mid corner, the pressure was at 4.2 - 4.5 bar. Slaloms and drift transitions didn't seem to affect the reading on the gauge. Yes, I'm that jack a** that will drift at an autocross.
The next step from here, for me anyways, is to take it on the track. As a driver, having confidence in your vehicle is an important factor in going fast. Most people go faster in cars that are easier to drive than cars in their fastest form. If the vehicle doesn't feel good or you have to constantly watch your gauges, you're not going to push the car. I can't wait to see how my 996 compares to all my BMW track cars I've owned in the past. It'll be fun to run some data acquisition and compare the results to the data I've collected from my BMWs. It's essentially like racing yourself in different cars. I'm thankful the UIDs exists because my relationship with my 996 has completely changed. Previously, it was like being married to a 10 and never sleeping with your wife. I like going fast and now I can unapologetically drive it hard. So with that said, there is no buyers remorse here. I look forward to updating you all after my next track day.
Great to hear, but how can the UIDS affect the oil pressure when going at constant speed in a straight line? I must be missing something simple.
Great to hear, but how can the UIDS affect the oil pressure when going at constant speed in a straight line? I must be missing something simple.
No, I don't think you missed anything simple I just think you were not reading and looking for "benefits" ....( several others have done that also)
If you are only looking for effects on oil pressure/stability when going at constant speed in a straight line, then virtually anything that keeps oil from falling out of the bottom of the engine will do....
But if you intend to do a LOT more than that ??????
Last edited by Porschetech3; 10-28-2022 at 09:16 PM.
Yes progress continues on the UIDS everyday albeit slowly at times . There were some health issues that slowed progress .
I good friend a fellow Porsche enthusiast Randy has been doing the drafting on the updated baffle..
I have known Randy for over 10 years when he first bought his 1999 996 Cab and brought it in to the dealership for Post purchase inspection.....His clean 996 checked out wonderfully and he was very enthusiastic about the car. I suggested he join the local PCA Club and we quickly became friends and doing PCA DE events at Barber and PCA driving tours , IE "Polar Bear Run" "Cheaha Mountain Run" ect....He became more involved in the Club and started organizing the driving Tours and him an I scouted out the " Tail of the Dragon Run" ..7 years ago.. We organized a three day stay at Tapaco Lodge for 20 rooms for the local PCA Club and three days of events ie, driving trips, lunches, Social Parties ect.. It was so successful it is now a yearly event for our local Club every October..
35k miles ago we did a rebuild/upgrade 3.4 to 3.8 , LN Nickies, Carrilo Rods, JE Pistons , LN IMSB ect..
Randy was working for HH Technologies and in charge of all Walmart accounts for the Garden Center Projects on new stores for the automatic roll up doors..He had caught a rare lung disease from Exotic birds he was raising ( Tucans ect) that had worsened until he was on oxygen full time and on the lung transplant list..
He was lucky enough to receive a pair 30yo lungs but the recovery was difficult in healing of the esophagus and took 2 years to fully recover..But he finally made a full recovery..and has been good for 2 years ..
But while working on the drafting of the baffles he got a lung infection and was hospitalized. A lung infection is very dangerous for him...Any way he recovered from that and finished the drafting after I had made a few corrections and now it is with MetalCraft to be made .
MetalCraft will make the baffles from .063 aluminum and laser cut the perforations/pattern. The lower 2" of perforations will have Viton Rubber one-way flaps while the upper "V" perforations will be cross-flow ...The baffle will also incorporate the "Viton Float valve" to seal the 30mm hole in the top of the sump when G-force reaches above 1.5G . The baffle will have rubber seals down the sides to seal and secure that are riveted on . It will come with a metal gauge to set the depth of the baffle for a .010 clearance along the bottom of the baffle for clearance to the floor/Twin Tunnels... One bolt install per baffle and easy setting with metal gauge...
The goal of the Ultimate Integrated Dry Sump has always been to create a system that will outperform the Mezger Dry Sump System in very possible way. It already can equal or surpass the MDS in most ways as already been shown, ( the MDS can't maintain oil pressure completely on it's side, where as the UIDS can) , this highly technical/sophisticated yet robust simple looking baffle can make that happen...
Rome wasn't built in a day and good things come to those who wait...
Last edited by Porschetech3; 12-05-2022 at 07:05 PM.
10-12-2022, 07:37 PM
