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A little off topic but can you tell me who has approved this for use in the spec classes? I sent the basic information to the rules coordinator, he had questions about it I couldn't answer.
I have talked to Walt Fickle in the past about the UAOS being used in Spec Classes and his words were "We are open to anything that can bring more dependability to the engine and not be a power/performance advantage..."..
I can't see how the UIDS orUAOS either would not be allowed...( infact I think several are already running )
Last edited by Porschetech3; 10-05-2022 at 04:48 PM.
- The pressure dip is most likely due to oil slosh during the return to neutral yaw, lat G after corner exit.
I am not sure I understand correctly what you mean by 'neutral yaw, lat g after corner exit'?
I think you mean neutral as in zero yaw rate and zero lateral acceleration. Correct?
I am not sure I understand correctly what you mean by 'neutral yaw, lat g after corner exit'?
I think you mean neutral as in zero yaw rate and zero lateral acceleration. Correct?
18396148[/url]]Yeah, it’s a joke. I’m not even remotely competent enough to land an Applebees waiter gig…
Someday.
I was a waiter at Applebees in college. I struggled and eventually got fired. I should have been happy as a host and could have made it as a bus boy, but nooooo. I had to go after the big bucks.
I was a waiter at Applebees in college. I struggled and eventually got fired. I should have been happy as a host and could have made it as a bus boy, but nooooo. I had to go after the big bucks.
Yes, Big Boy Track for sure ......the Carousel is where he lost his engine 2 years ago when he was running the Mantis Sump. It is a very very long turn with high G-Forces that kills a LOT of engines if they can't handle G-forces....He will be installing the UAOS Track Version with 1qt more oil over the off season.
Here is a direct comparison of the UIDS vs Mantis through the Carousel, The Kink, Thunder Alley, and Canada Corner using their fastest laps of the day...( Note UIDS is running on less than 9qts oil and does not have the UAOS Track Version with extra 1qt )
Not certain what everyone is seeing here. What I see is a pretty smooth green line thru the most dangerous section of Road America for an M96 engine.
I've done over 1200 laps at Road America, and these are the areas I always worried about. Especially the damn carousel which is noted as section 12 on the graph. The second area I worried about was Canada corner into and through the right to left "swoosh" which is section 14 on the graph.
Both green lines are comatose.
Regarding two dips. It looks to me like the two dips come after the car has exited the turn when the car is moving in a straight line unlike the other cayman which has substantial dips in the turn.
What first comes to mind is..
(1) what would the dip look like if Ben was running the UAOS with the oil at a quart over full. If the oil stability thread data is any indication, more oil helped to mitigate the dips in oil pressure drops. No reason to believe this wouldn't be the case with the UIDS. But sure, we won't know until it's been tested.
(2) the second thing that comes to mind is how much the dip can be mitigated with the addition of one of the different baffles Skip mentioned he was working on.
Keeping personality and style conflicts out of this, what I see is a pretty damn good solution that is taking shape in relation to what we have been historically running in our cars for two decades.
Complain all you want, but we need to continue to encourage solutions, not discourage them. Thanks for your work Skip.
Not certain what everyone is seeing here. What I see is a pretty smooth green line thru the most dangerous section of Road America for an M96 engine.
I've done over 1200 laps at Road America, and these are the areas I always worried about. Especially the damn carousel which is noted as section 12 on the graph. The second area I worried about was Canada corner into and through the right to left "swoosh" which is section 14 on the graph.
Both green lines are comatose.
Regarfing two dips. It looks to me like the two dips come after the car has exited the turn when the car is moving in a straight line unlike the other cayman which has substantial dips in the turn.
What first comes to mind is..
(1) what would the dip look like if Ben was running the UAOS with the oil at a quart over full. If the oil stability thread data is any indication, more oil helped to mitigate the dips in oil pressure drops. No reason to believe this wouldn't be the case with the UIDS. But sure, we won't know until it's been tested.
(2) the second thing that comes to mind is how much the dip can be mitigated with the addition of one of the different baffles Skip mentioned he was working on.
Keeping personality and style conflicts out of this, what I see is a pretty damn good solution that is taking shape in relation to what we have been historically running in our cars for two decades.
Complain all you want, but we need to continue to encourage solutions, not discourage them. Thanks for your work Skip.
Yes, I'm very much looking forward to testing the car with the UAOS which will permit a greater oil volume.
With the Mantis sump, we running close to 9L of oil, but the UIDS has lowered that volume to 7.8L. This is with the E dipstick reading 2/3 to 3/4 full. Racing the M97 with the oil level at the full mark risks overloading the AOS. The Porsche motorsport AOS does a good job at managing, but the stock AOS was incredibly ineffective -- Huge smoke plumes during cornering before I swapped it out. Useless.
Back to some of the evidence discussions. It's easy to flip the "not enough evidence" argument around and start with the fact that the M96/97 in stock form are completely un-track worthy. Nobody (and I mean nobody) would dare to race either of these engines stock as they're all but guaranteed to prematurely fail. The oil will aerate and starve, the AOS will overload, the engine will overheat, the PS fluid will boil and the rod bolts will stretch. Even the infamous IMS bearing is far less of a worry than these factors. PCA is aware and that's why they allow modifications even though it's a spec series. At the 2018 Road America race, no less than 3 SPC cayman M97s failed on track (mine one of them).
So, with numerous post-mortems, we've solved most of these issues, but the oil delivery is the final hurdle to optimize engine health. Up to now, the deep Mantis sump was the best option but it certainly isn't perfect. M97 engines are still failing on track, and most of us schedule rebuilds every 2-3 seasons as preventative maintenance. This is primarily to replace the bearings and seals that wear prematurely due to suboptimal lubrication. With the UIDS, it appears that we are closer to optimizing the oil delivery during extreme conditions (temp, revs, Lat Gs). With the current design, there are no drops with acceleration, braking, corner entry or steady state mid-corner forces. The issue is the oil slosh on corner exit. Quick back and forth esses can also cause brief oil dips, too, again as the result of the oil slosh in the pan. Fortunately in these situations, the dips are transient and correct quickly. I'll be keeping in touch with Skip regarding comparative data with higher oil volume and the UAOS once I get back on track.
Unfortunately, this will have to wait unit next season.
Wouldn't it have been nice if Porsche had updated/improved the sump more than just 2 times in the decade that they released the m96/97.??
..The early sumps had exposed bolt heads that got caught on curbs and broke out a piece of the block. Many engines were replaced because of this...Then they updated with "recessed" bolt heads to solve this...... The only other update was the x51 baffle to "help" stabilize oil pressure.....(eyeroll) ..Porsche had a team of Engineers on payroll and had a decade to make updates/improved designs and only made 2 updates............. yet I get attacked if I need/want to make an update.....
I "selected" this particular comparison for 3 reasons, It is the most demanding of ANY place any car will encounter..It shows the capabilities of the UIDS to handle Extreme high G-forces, and it shows the small dip that I knew would bring the trolls to the yard...
The way you read that graph to see what is important is quite simple ,the black line is the base oil pressure/quality , any deviation below the line is from air...any deviation above the line is due to slight increases in "head pressure" to the oil pump...
The further or more time below the black line the worse the quality of lubrication the engine is receiving.....
As I have already mentioned the small dips seen in the green line is due to oil slosh coming "down" from a high G-force angle and I have a baffle design now to solve this that is being made by HH Technologies ..
As many of you know I have been a problem solver all my life. I see a problem, then I analyse it/diagnose it , then I fix it......
Like I and others have mentioned, the UAOS Track Version with 1 qt more oil would probably fix this little drop seen here, but I want to fix it anyway and the extra 1 qt oil will just be icing on the cake...
Last edited by Porschetech3; 10-10-2022 at 08:09 PM.
10-05-2022, 04:26 PM
I don't think Applebees is in the same league as Chotchkie's.
