A place to discuss all things ADM
10-26-2022, 09:57 PM
#2656
Race Car
@Targa32 is saying what @bayareanady on IG has been saying for years. You win by losing. He lets them make money off him by buying sometimes undesirable things to eventually get desirable things. Too many come in off the street having never bought anything from a particular brand or dealership, and want the hottest car that manufacturer has. Case in point, a 992 GT3RS or the 765LT.
The following 2 users liked this post by shrimp money:
AlexCeres (10-27-2022),
Freddie Two Bs (10-27-2022)
10-27-2022, 01:04 AM
#2657
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not worth it to you...but if someone wants to be first, they have the cash and don't care, and they may value time more than money, it's chump change to them.
Why does everyone want to project their valuation on others?
Maybe they have been working so hard all of their lives that they don't know their own kids, they have 3 ex-wives, they have a pace maker, but they have a gazillion dollars and want to have their dream car??
No, I'm not talking about Musk, but people like that...
Why does everyone want to project their valuation on others?
Maybe they have been working so hard all of their lives that they don't know their own kids, they have 3 ex-wives, they have a pace maker, but they have a gazillion dollars and want to have their dream car??
No, I'm not talking about Musk, but people like that...
I know of two people, personally, that paid a healthy 5 figure ADM -- one for a Porsche GT car and another one for a Ford Bronco.
Neither person cared about the money. They just wanted to have the car and drive. And neither bought them for investment purposes. The GT car owner has already put close to 7k miles and has two door dings. The Bronco is used as a camera vehicle for her company.
People here can bitch and moan about how spending X amount of money isn't worth it and blah blah and how people will regret paying ADM. But what people may not appreciate, at least consciously, is that there are those that do not blink at writing a check with an additional 50k tacked on. Why? Because they easily make that and more in a day. Yes, a day. For them, whatever ADM is tacked on is simply a rounding error, like the loose change we hoi polloi drop in the tip charge for our favorite baristas.
The following 4 users liked this post by ipse dixit:
10-27-2022, 01:33 AM
#2658
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,286
Received 4,472 Likes
on
2,547 Posts
Yeah, some people are really rich, but I bet the percentage of Porsche buyers making over $12 million a year is very low. Be real …
The following 2 users liked this post by Manifold:
WCGhost (10-27-2022),
welikethetrack (10-27-2022)
10-27-2022, 02:29 AM
#2659
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The following users liked this post:
Diablo Dude (11-02-2022)
10-27-2022, 09:10 AM
#2660
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,286
Received 4,472 Likes
on
2,547 Posts
The following 4 users liked this post by Ascend:
10-27-2022, 12:45 PM
#2662
@Targa32 is saying what @bayareanady on IG has been saying for years. You win by losing. He lets them make money off him by buying sometimes undesirable things to eventually get desirable things. Too many come in off the street having never bought anything from a particular brand or dealership, and want the hottest car that manufacturer has. Case in point, a 992 GT3RS or the 765LT.
The following users liked this post:
shrimp money (10-27-2022)
10-27-2022, 12:47 PM
#2663
Real talk for a minute.
I know of two people, personally, that paid a healthy 5 figure ADM -- one for a Porsche GT car and another one for a Ford Bronco.
Neither person cared about the money. They just wanted to have the car and drive. And neither bought them for investment purposes. The GT car owner has already put close to 7k miles and has two door dings. The Bronco is used as a camera vehicle for her company.
People here can bitch and moan about how spending X amount of money isn't worth it and blah blah and how people will regret paying ADM. But what people may not appreciate, at least consciously, is that there are those that do not blink at writing a check with an additional 50k tacked on. Why? Because they easily make that and more in a day. Yes, a day. For them, whatever ADM is tacked on is simply a rounding error, like the loose change we hoi polloi drop in the tip charge for our favorite baristas.
I know of two people, personally, that paid a healthy 5 figure ADM -- one for a Porsche GT car and another one for a Ford Bronco.
Neither person cared about the money. They just wanted to have the car and drive. And neither bought them for investment purposes. The GT car owner has already put close to 7k miles and has two door dings. The Bronco is used as a camera vehicle for her company.
People here can bitch and moan about how spending X amount of money isn't worth it and blah blah and how people will regret paying ADM. But what people may not appreciate, at least consciously, is that there are those that do not blink at writing a check with an additional 50k tacked on. Why? Because they easily make that and more in a day. Yes, a day. For them, whatever ADM is tacked on is simply a rounding error, like the loose change we hoi polloi drop in the tip charge for our favorite baristas.
10-27-2022, 03:09 PM
#2664
Precisely. It enables bad behavior and furthers the extent of the seller to justify that from others/all.
The following users liked this post:
WCGhost (10-27-2022)
10-27-2022, 04:10 PM
#2665
The whole argument of 'well, rich people aren't affected by the downturn and hence prices won't come down much' seems to fly in the face of the argument that people made about rapid COVID price appreciation in the first place ("look at all the new millionaires!') and the fact that most wealthy people own a significant amount of assets which have all simultaneously taken a hit. That combined with the fact that a higher proportion of cars are financed now vs historically and the fact that Mannheim just reported the highest declining wholesale price segment within used cars was luxury cars means the entire high-end market is on shaky ground. Not a GT3-specific argument but clearly not immune. Yes, there are people with a net worth of $100mm+ who are still fantastically wealthy in this current environment but the proportion of those people who own GT3s is minimal. A GT3 owner typically doesn't have a Bugatti or private jet tucked away.
The following users liked this post:
RealityGT (10-27-2022)
10-27-2022, 05:10 PM
#2666
The whole argument of 'well, rich people aren't affected by the downturn and hence prices won't come down much' seems to fly in the face of the argument that people made about rapid COVID price appreciation in the first place ("look at all the new millionaires!') and the fact that most wealthy people own a significant amount of assets which have all simultaneously taken a hit. That combined with the fact that a higher proportion of cars are financed now vs historically and the fact that Mannheim just reported the highest declining wholesale price segment within used cars was luxury cars means the entire high-end market is on shaky ground. Not a GT3-specific argument but clearly not immune. Yes, there are people with a net worth of $100mm+ who are still fantastically wealthy in this current environment but the proportion of those people who own GT3s is minimal. A GT3 owner typically doesn't have a Bugatti or private jet tucked away.
SoCal Porsche Dealership 1- $153K over on touring, reduced this week by $20K
SoCal Porsche Dealership 2- $95K over on touring, reduced yesterday by $25K
Socal Dealership 1- I mentioned a broker was advertising a wing car for $35K over, it looks like it was sold after I posted on here and answered DMs about it, it had sat for months, so hopefully that helped someone on here.
Also, this auction ends in a day, color combo seems to be holding it back: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...gt3-touring-2/
Last edited by WCGhost; 10-27-2022 at 05:15 PM.
10-27-2022, 05:50 PM
#2667
Do you happen to have a link to the Mannheim report or a snap shot? The Snapshot ipse dixit posted a week or so ago through Sep data made it seem like things were flat in the collector market? Is there a difference between looking up luxury car indexes vs. collector car indexes? If there is, I would assume the GT3 would be more collector than luxury, or is that assumption incorrect? That may be a reason for the discrepancy. I do think that prices are going down and not up, but the ones dropping the most had initial asking prices that were crazy.
SoCal Porsche Dealership 1- $153K over on touring, reduced this week by $20K
SoCal Porsche Dealership 2- $95K over on touring, reduced yesterday by $25K
Socal Dealership 1- I mentioned a broker was advertising a wing car for $35K over, it looks like it was sold after I posted on here and answered DMs about it, it had sat for months, so hopefully that helped someone on here.
Also, this auction ends in a day, color combo seems to be holding it back: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...gt3-touring-2/
SoCal Porsche Dealership 1- $153K over on touring, reduced this week by $20K
SoCal Porsche Dealership 2- $95K over on touring, reduced yesterday by $25K
Socal Dealership 1- I mentioned a broker was advertising a wing car for $35K over, it looks like it was sold after I posted on here and answered DMs about it, it had sat for months, so hopefully that helped someone on here.
Also, this auction ends in a day, color combo seems to be holding it back: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...gt3-touring-2/
https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/202...t-to-continue/
https://publish.manheim.com/en/servi...lue-index.html
The following users liked this post:
WCGhost (10-28-2022)
10-28-2022, 01:54 AM
#2668
10-28-2022, 08:46 PM
#2669
Ended today at $300K ($82K over) Reserve not met, for a seemingly unpopular color combo based on comments. There were two bidders on this auction at the end, one of which has bid on 53 cars on the site. Seems odd since there are a few better examples up for sale now with much better color combos and $30K-$35K less, and can be had immediately.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...gt3-touring-2/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...gt3-touring-2/
Last edited by WCGhost; 10-28-2022 at 08:56 PM.
10-28-2022, 09:01 PM
#2670
Burning Brakes
I was offered a GT3 allocation with a $65,000 premium over msrp a week ago. I turned it down as I decided to take an allocation at msrp for the new 911-T.
And it was obvious from his demeanor that if I said $50,000 over I would likely have a GT3 on the way now. I am a good long term customer but at the same time I never asked for a GT3 allocation. This suggests that this dealer has run out of buyers willing to pay a large premium for an allocation.
The problem with the GT3 is the car is sort of useless - too pretty and expensive to drive on a track and too uncomfortable to drive for any longer distance on the road. Great for impressing the other members of your PCA Region at cars and coffee of course.
Plus the risk of losing $50,000 to $100,000 for a car that I would almost surely decide to sell 2,000 to 3,000 miles after I put it in my garage is a costly sports car status symbol.
the interior is identical to my son’s new base Carrera that cost him $110,000..
min fact ai am trading my 2022 GT4 with 2,500 miles into a dealer for their first allocation of the 911–T - and excited about having fun in this new driver’s model on country roads and mountain roads and the difference in hp and even suspension will not matter at all.
most of us drive legal fun roads more than on a Dedicated Track and those friends that drive on Track religiously buy an old Cayman or 911 and best the hell out of it and enjoy every minute driving without worrying about Rick chips in their $24,000 PTS+ paint job.
And it was obvious from his demeanor that if I said $50,000 over I would likely have a GT3 on the way now. I am a good long term customer but at the same time I never asked for a GT3 allocation. This suggests that this dealer has run out of buyers willing to pay a large premium for an allocation.
The problem with the GT3 is the car is sort of useless - too pretty and expensive to drive on a track and too uncomfortable to drive for any longer distance on the road. Great for impressing the other members of your PCA Region at cars and coffee of course.
Plus the risk of losing $50,000 to $100,000 for a car that I would almost surely decide to sell 2,000 to 3,000 miles after I put it in my garage is a costly sports car status symbol.
the interior is identical to my son’s new base Carrera that cost him $110,000..
min fact ai am trading my 2022 GT4 with 2,500 miles into a dealer for their first allocation of the 911–T - and excited about having fun in this new driver’s model on country roads and mountain roads and the difference in hp and even suspension will not matter at all.
most of us drive legal fun roads more than on a Dedicated Track and those friends that drive on Track religiously buy an old Cayman or 911 and best the hell out of it and enjoy every minute driving without worrying about Rick chips in their $24,000 PTS+ paint job.