av12345

Sorry what are you basing 60 to 80 on? Everything I’ve seen is still that that’s the top end for a wing but bottom end for a touring.

welikethetrack

LOL top/lower end of the ask no one is moving on

GT3 market is in free fall. Ya hate to see it right, poor GT3 buyers who paid the "investment" price of 100k ADM

A fool and his money are soon parted...

WCGhost

This is based on completed auctions being in that range, also when I called this dealership to confirm price (Porsche San Diego) I asked him for a range, he mentioned they are selling from $60-$80K, and had a car available in that range. I have also received a similar range from McKenna and South Bay within the last few weeks. One was $70K and the other $80K over and they were both touring, they were both full ask without trying to negotiate, so I think the $60K bottom range is reasonable for that reason. The reason I think the Porsche San Diego car is priced correctly today for a touring is because $80K was his starting price on a PTS manual car, so the assumption is that a PTS manual car before negotiating would be at the higher end of this range. The BAT auction that ended today, ended at $69K over MSRP, RNM. That was a solid spec, but not PTS, but manual so it being in the middle of that range makes sense. These are mostly PDK cars at the bottom of the range FYI which is what I am looking for. Next week it could be different. Note that PDK cars are often significantly lower than manual, from what I have seen the touring to wing discrepancy is less than the PDK to Manual discrepancy. So today value is actually driven less by it being a touring, and more so it being manual, but that is just based on what I have seen this week and calls I have made. Touring manual will fetch the most, wing PDK will catch the least. There was a Winged PDK car posted here that was RNM at $224K, so prices for winged PDK have definitely come back down significantly

With that said, I do think you can find a similar car as to the Porsche San Diego example for less, this is a high option car, so you are looking at $311K with $80K ADM. This salesman was also extremely confident in prices going up, my experience is that when salesman are this confident about something that other salesman are unsure of, they are full of it. For the most part salesman don't have a crystal ball, and know that prices could decrease, anyone who is 100% confident in prices going up, just means that their specific dealership is not a top dealership that will be getting many more allocations. I have called about a half dozen local dealerships so far, and I will say it is about a 50/50 split from guys who sound like they are full of it so far (San Diego, Rusnak , etc) are trying to sell you the moon and people who are honest, the ones who are honest will not speak definitively. Rusnak when asked what is the MSRP? I was told the asking price, had to ask 3X. Then I asked if its a touring or winged car, they said its PDK loll. Keep in mind the dealerships I have called I have quoted the full asking prices, without any negotiating, so if we are seeing $60-$80K asking on tourings,you could even assume the actual sales price is $10K lower.

Manifold

Why are some of you guys in such a hurry to buy a car? It’s just a car, and they’ll make more, pretty sure they’re not going out of business.

Grunspan

it’s different when you own one. Hopefully you will one day and will see it differently. The money is important but its not most important. You can wait a few years until they drop to msrp and have the last laugh, but then you lose those years of enjoyment. Some things are more important than others, depending on where you are in your life. maybe you’re right, but i am thoroughly enjoying myself. Not sure who gets the last laugh. TBD
anyways, this forum is not to judge those who pay ADM but to create a clearinghouse of data as to what the ‘market’ is and where its heading. If you are against ADM and your only contribution is to judge and deride those willing to pay it, then you are probably trolling the wrong forum.

Diablo Dude

You're a funny guy.

Diablo Dude

I must say that I find some "irony" in your post given that you've admitted to currently having 8 German cars in your garage/possession.
Sounds like you're not as "patient" as you would like us all to believe.

Manifold

It’s the opposite - I was patient in buying each of those cars, and usually keep cars a long time. Also, ‘my’ cars are shared with my wife, who likes cars.

poofyo101

If it means anything to anyone,
Mercedes G63 was trading for alot a few months ago. 50k was normal some higher.
I was offered 2 for MSRP within the last 2 months and a friend of mine offered 2 as well.
Obviously a different vehicle but seems as the market is softening in general.

shrimp money

Imagine a forum where the price of a car is discussed more than the car itself.

WCGhost

That is because the GT3 is the crypto currency of cars, look at how many cars that are listed that have nearly no miles and are listed for sale, it is being used as a financial instrument, not used. Eventually the cars will end up in the hands of people who want to drive them.

Targa32

I have managed portfolios for 48 years - and I have seen these markets many times. The market will come roaring back faster than any one expects. Trillions now in cash -pension plans accumulating cash every passing pay period and holding it in cash.
if you think a GT3 is a rare commodity - consider that the Great companies in America rarely sell new shares - they keep buying them back. Fewer investment grade shares with strong growing dividends chased by fmore and more accumulated wealth.

when I started as a broker in the mid-70’s the Dow was at - 750.

now that real estate is not a viable leveraged commodity - profitable dividend paying businesses with large market share postions become one of the only rational choice. Crypto - is raw speculation- not investing. Bonds - are nice but they almost always pay you something less than inflation- guaranteed loss. And they pay you back in depreciated dollars. And interest is taxed as ordinary income. Dividends can rise to offset inflation and also are taxed more favorably.

loan money to municipal entities? That borrow more money every year than they can ever pay back. The collapse of municipal governments could be the next big financial disaster.

the guy with solid companies that stay profitable during any slowdown - and increases dividends to mostly show their ongoing financial strength - and are fully invested will be fully invested the first day this market downside ends- what are the odds as a market timer you will reinvest all the cash on that day? Most likely my experience has been investors that sell out- market goes lower- they feel real smart. Market rises once and falls back and then again and they stay in cash. Not going to get suckered into a false rally. But then it goes up - and then continues to go up and they wait - wait - until the prices of the shares they sold are higher than they sold out at and then they really don’t buy shares. And they find they missed the next market appreciation - and those that sold also only have 80% as much money to reinvest after taxes.

at the end of the day - our economy here is the strongest and most competitive environment and our companies have the ability to respond and to restructure their businesses and they truly produce a strong typically double digit return on equity.

look at the return on equity of European companies or in Japan or even in China- often low single digits and their accounting is horribly suspect at best.

Add that we have the largest military and the most stable government ( sort of) and we have our own energy sources if we Want to extract it- and we have the strongest currency in the world as well.

everyone in Britain and Europe have currencies that are now worth less than the dollar. ( why is the price of a Porsche Sports car not going down!) .

Have faith - this too share soon pass. It would be better of course if the government aided a repair and resurgence of our businesses ability to produce greater amounts of goods and services rather than decreasing demand with interest rates. But politicians are not patient people by nature and rather than letting businesses and entrepreneurial spirit restore the supply chain and the economy to lower inflation this monopolistic Federal Reserve bank manipulates interest rates to lower demand rather than letting interest rates float with demand and supply of money just like pork bellies or GT3’s.

on the GT3 prices debate- My thought is that now that Porsche is a public company they will need to show growth every quarter. And these GT cars are obviously horribly profitable as compared to a Macon. They will build more and more of these specialty cars and if I was running the place -I would increase the price of these most popular cars and accrue more of the potential profits to Porsche rather than to their dealers.

They will increase msrp prices and increase production. Longer term / open a plant in The States to build SUV’s like Mercedes and BMW and this will leave the German plants to use more of their factories to build sports cars with larger profit margins.

Eventually the dealer model will likely die as did gas station attendants washing your windows.

Ford just told their dealers they have to start selling all EV’s coming down the pike at msrp and must invest millions in new charging stations and other infrastructure.

just some rambling thoughts.

One guy posted that the prices at MSRP are already stupidly high and adding an ADM on top is adding insult to injury as they say.

This is my story for the moment and I am sticking to it - until Monday.

just got a msrp allocation on the 911 T and I have a Panamera executive arriving late December and traded in my 2022 GT4 which I paid msrp for just $2,000 over my cost. Glad I didn’t pay $25,000 over msrp for this GT4. Easy to buy them but the dealers are not so friendly when you go to sell them back to them.

Exotic used car shops want $1,000 to prep for sale and then 7%.

pay MSRP. Crypto currency is not investing nor are cars.

I am bored tonight. Sorry for the long post.

Targa32

I received the post below on my GT 4 - got bids from this dealer that sold me the car new and several others .

this is a 2022 shark blue GT 4 - lots of options with a msrp of $133,600 before tax and license.

perfect condition- 2600 miles . email text below:

Dealer’s are getting scared— I had one dealer I have bought cars from that said they did not want to “own” GT cars in their inventory. The prices are dropping and whatever they pay could prove too high…

anyway this sales manager is a personal friend - this is the email he sent me today::

“We’d go $136,000 but that’s just for you as we know you’re trying to buy more cars. We’re being much more conservative with the sliding market as we paid heavy on many cars before and we’re now sitting at a deficit. The new cars are even sitting now for a little bit where before they were pretty much selling instantly.“

try to sell a GT3 to a dealer and I bet their bid will be not much over msrp at this point to minimize their inventory risk.

Diablo Dude

Spoken like a true student of the financial markets.
lol

Duct Tape

Well, it depends on point of view. In your case, with 8000+ posts and, I’m assuming current and probable previous Porsches, perhaps the sense of urgency and level of desire is different.

From my perspective, close to retirement and with a recent medical event which opened my eyes on the value of enjoying life, and finally looking to buy my first sports car after years of raising four kids with countless minivans (reluctantly admitted) and Suburbans, my wants are perhaps a little different.