WCGhost

The individual who had the highest bid has bid on 53 cars and has won none of them. For that reason, I would suspect possible shill bidding as other have mentioned. It also gives this dealer an opportunity to advertise the car and set a high value, in hopes it sells offline. All of the dealers past listings were also RNM.

usctrojanGT3

Unfortunately for them, time is not on their side.

damsas

So are ADMs finally alleviating on GT4 RS and GT3s or GT3 RSs? Or is new allocations stopping on the first two and its just going even higher?

Manifold

After spending time with my dealer and learning how scarce the foreseeable allocations are, my view has shifted. For the dealers who sell the cars with ADM (mine doesn't), I think we'll continue to see some ADM on those cars for a while. As the effect of interest rates kicks in, while inflation is still high, and then as the economy slows into genuine recession, we should see some drop in the demand for these cars, while the supply of used cars should increase as sellers want to sell them before prices fall further. So my best guess is that prices of the used cars will come down next year to the point where they're somewhat below MSRP, and the average ADM should also decrease to a small number or zero. This may not happen (if it happens) until well into next year, and currently it seems that prices are only decreasing slowly.

Targa32

I was offered a GT3 allocation with a $65,000 ADm and I could tell they were open to an even lower hard bid with a large deposit. I think the dealers are worried that with a $5,000 deposit on a deal with a larger than potentially higher than market ADM six months out when the car arrives a buyer might just decide to not take the allocation leaving with them having to find a home for the car.

My SA said they only want to offer these GT cars to known reliable buyers they have dealt with in the past.

I bet I could have bought the car if I had offered a $50,000 ADM or maybe lower. The dealership knows I pay cash for cars which is beneficial to them in terms of risk presented by guys who will finance and if interest rates go higher still could also leave them with a bunch of cars to sell on the floor. Half the fun is building your car on the configurator.

I did take the first allocation for a 911 T from a different dealer at msrp - and I traded in my GT4 with those painful carbon fiber seats - for slightly more than I paid for car back in February. The GT4 is beautiful but really a track car while the 911 T is focused on country and mountain road driving. These GT cars are just too pretty to drive on a track.

I was also offered a C8 Corvette allocation at MSRP by a Chevy dealer I have done business with in the past and I would get a build number immediately. So I would have the car in six weeks. With tons of options and the 500 hp engine and such - the price came to $97,700 — with shipping cost. Almost seemed free.

The point is other sports cars are losing their ADM pricing rather quickly.

Higher interest rates, depressed investment markets, and the reality of toys not appreciating like last year - will make a dent in over msrp pricing. Soon Corvettes will be offered with a $2,000 discount and zero interest rates.

I know there is no substitute - but at zero interest rate and at a discount from msrp - for a car with 500 hp - it could be a fun alternative.

I took the corvette allocation and the price above included a factory delivery -($995) which does not require flying to Germany.

maroli

Even at $50k ADM, that is a falling knife. If there are ADMs near the end of production (which may well be the case) the used 992 GT3 market is already so populated that inventory will continue to swell and used pricing will probably go below MSRP when you try to sell. So essentially you're paying the $50k premium to get delivery mileage and a spec of your choice.

Dr. G

Here’s a new one. I have a friend who gets in and out of cars relatively frequently, buying in cash at a discount and then selling with ‘minimal loss’ usually within a year. Apparently this makes him some kind of “expert” on the economics of car sales - and, subsequently, an “expert” on the GT3 market which, according to him, “is no different than any other car because it isn’t a limited or special edition.” We had an argument the other day because he insists that there are “no new cars being sold by dealers with $50-100K ADMs,” because “it is illegal” and that “if Porsche corporate knew they were selling new cars over sticker they would lose their dealership,” as “Porsche doesn’t make any more money if the dealer sells over MSRP.” So “all the GT3s being sold over MSRP are used.” He also went on to insist that “no previous GT3 iterations were ever sold new for over MSRP” and that “it’s only because of the recent market, where “everything is going over MSRP” that the GT3s are carrying a premium.

Remember, though, he also said that dealers couldn’t legally sell for over MSRP.

He then went on to give me the following “advice” - he said if I didn’t sell my Touring within a year of getting it I would lose “at least $100,000” by keeping the car any longer than that.

FWIW, I got my Touring at MSRP - PTS, 6MT, LWBs.

I’m just posting this because I think others would enjoy reading it - particularly if they’ve paid an “illegal” ADM.

Targa32

Not sure if pricing will fall below msrp - on the GT3 used market and therefore erasing the ADM for new allocations— but I agree - prices are likely to fall with so many GT3’s having been already sold and likely half were buyers that assumed they could own the car for a year and sell it for a profit. Plus they financed the car and never intended to make three to five years of payments. Dealers will resist buying GT3’s into inventory as well given the potential drop in value.

Also the 2024 911’s will be the 992.2 variant with likely a lot of improvements- digital dash, more hp and so on. Making the 2024 GT3 the new kid on the block and if you can get an allocation at msrp- what is the value of used 992 versions going to fall too?

I turned down the $65,000 over and did not offer the $50,000 I believed the SA was willing to accept.

plus - since I am not going to drive on a track with a $200,000 plus car - why suffer on the road in this track focused car?

I traded my 2022 GT4 for the dealers first allocation of the new 911 T which will price out around $150,000 and still have enough money left over to take an allocation on a 2023 Corvette C8. Both more fun than a single GT3 in my world of country road and mountain driving.

when I was at the factory in Stuttgart on a tour I noticed there were a lot of GT3’s going down the assembly line for a supposedly difficult car to obtain.

plus in two more years the 992 series will become eclipsed by the prospect of the next generation - 993 which will no doubt provide a marked performance improvement for the entire 911 line.

Dr. G

As much as I’d love to see a 993 GT3, I can tell you with 100% certainty it’s never going to happen

maroli

Do you mean it'll never happen as an NA or that they won't even have the entire concept of a track focused 911?

Dr. G

I mean that the 993 completed its production cycle in early 1998.

Manifold

I could be wrong, but I suspect that a lot of people are buying Porsche GT cars mainly for road use, thinking that they're going to be fun, but are going to find them too stiff, resulting in those cars being put on sale and prices coming down.

Dr. G

I agree with the first part - people underestimate the stiffness of the suspension. They also don't play with tire pressures, which can make things a bit better.

As far as prices coming down because of it, there are still plenty of people who want a GT3 that couldn't get one. It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

Manifold

delete (duplicate)

Manifold

But the want for a GT car is often based on how one imagines driving it will be like. Then someone gets the car and may notice that it's stiff and lacks low to mid range torque, and may conclude that any of the non-GT variants is a better road car - great handling and amply fast, but more comfortable, and can even have a posh interior. I say this an owner of two GT cars and several non-GT cars. After driving the GT cars on the track, they really feel wasted and out of their element when driving them on the road.