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Also the 2024 911’s will be the 992.2 variant with likely a lot of improvements- digital dash, more hp and so on.
Making the 2024 GT3 the new kid on the block and if you can get an allocation at msrp- what is the value of used 992 versions going to fall too?
1.) I totally disagree with your assumptions
2.) I, as well as other lifetime Porsche owners would not view a Digital Dash as an "improvement".
3.) More horsepower is not the issue for this car as can be seen by the miniscule HP increase over the 991.2
4.) The MSRP jumped $8,600 from MY2022 to MY2023. It's highly likely that there will be continued +5% increases, if not higher increases.
5.) Sorry, but it feels as though you are going out of your way to rationalize why a 992 series GT car is not deemed a value to you.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 11-02-2022 at 07:12 PM.
The point is that there is always something new and better from Porsche and the old stuff typically fades in terms of demand and pricing. I think the digital dash would be a great improvement over the current instrument panel that leaves the side instruments completely obscured by the steering wheel. Analog instruments will disappear just like the old slide rule. Porsche has to keep moving the technology in the cars forward. If you prefer the old-style gauges and features there are always lots of older cars available. I did rationalize not paying a large markup on a GT3 or any car in fact. So far - I have never paid any markup on a Porsche -- and I bought three different sports cars over the last two years and a Panamera also at MSRP that is being built this week hopefully.
I also just got an allocation for a 2023 Corvette C8 at MSRP with delivery in 12 weeks. I know this is sacrilegious to say - but I have driven a GT3 and I was not all that impressed. Unless you're a pro driver being able to exploit the track improvements of the car any other Porsche 911 works just as well on the street and is also less painful to drive around. Kind of like giving an amateur golfer the most expensive golf club set and expecting that to make him instantly better at hitting the ball in the holes.
Personally I think the sweet spots in the Porsche sports car range is the new 911 T (a mountain and country road focused design) or the base turbo if you have the skills and bravery to use the 575 horsepower.
The most aggravating issue with paying a large ADM is that you have to pay sales tax and registration fees forever on this ADM extra cost.
The point is that there is always something new and better from Porsche and the old stuff typically fades in terms of demand and pricing. I think the digital dash would be a great improvement over the current instrument panel that leaves the side instruments completely obscured by the steering wheel. Analog instruments will disappear just like the old slide rule. Porsche has to keep moving the technology in the cars forward. If you prefer the old-style gauges and features there are always lots of older cars available. I did rationalize not paying a large markup on a GT3 or any car in fact. So far - I have never paid any markup on a Porsche -- and I bought three different sports cars over the last two years and a Panamera also at MSRP that is being built this week hopefully.
I also just got an allocation for a 2023 Corvette C8 at MSRP with delivery in 12 weeks. I know this is sacrilegious to say - but I have driven a GT3 and I was not all that impressed. Unless you're a pro driver being able to exploit the track improvements of the car any other Porsche 911 works just as well on the street and is also less painful to drive around. Kind of like giving an amateur golfer the most expensive golf club set and expecting that to make him instantly better at hitting the ball in the holes.
Personally I think the sweet spots in the Porsche sports car range is the new 911 T (a mountain and country road focused design) or the base turbo if you have the skills and bravery to use the 575 horsepower.
The most aggravating issue with paying a large ADM is that you have to pay sales tax and registration fees forever on this ADM extra cost.
I will pull commentary from the financial markets to make analogies and guesses on GT prices. Yes equities down 20% YTD. Many analysts believe we have not yet hit the stock market rock bottom along with the ugly capitulation which always marks the bottom.
Interestingly enough, a recent UBS poll of clients with investable assets of at least $1.0 Million told the company that 59% of them are positive on stocks, up from 50% three months ago.
More than half said they believe a recession has already begun or will this year. Almost 50% have already cut spending. And yet the GT3 still commands a pretty solid ADM.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 11-02-2022 at 07:27 PM.
Meanwhile, here is what the CEO of BENTLEY has to say about the current high net worth individual.
When asked why the luxury client, or high net worth individual, has been so resilient in this uncertain economic environment, Hallmark says two factors might be at play here.
Research Bentley cites from Credit Suisse finds that not only have the number of high net worth individuals been rising dramatically over the past 20 years, those individuals are actually more wealthier than before.
“There's four times more high net worth individuals recorded than 20 years before, but the other key factor is the average net worth is more than three times higher,” Hallmark says the research says.
Those are great demographics for a company that caters to clients worth millions.
Our GT cars are for the track. If we stopped going to the track, we'd sell the GT cars and only own non-GT cars. I don't find it fun to drive a car which begs to be driven near 10/10ths on the track - which I've done - at 7/10ths or less on the road. I find the 997 C2S manual to be way more fun on the road than modern GT cars, and it has a better torque curve on the road than the 991.1 GT3 (997 needs to be louder, but I can fix that).
Also the 2024 911’s will be the 992.2 variant with likely a lot of improvements- digital dash, more hp and so on. Making the 2024 GT3 the new kid on the block and if you can get an allocation at msrp- what is the value of used 992 versions going to fall too?
Alot of interesting points, but I ask you to consider where the prices are today on the 991.2 Touring, while the latest iteration is out in its full glory. They seem to be holding very well, no?
Meanwhile, here is what the CEO of BENTLEY has to say about the current high net worth individual.
When asked why the luxury client, or high net worth individual, has been so resilient in this uncertain economic environment, Hallmark says two factors might be at play here.
Research Bentley cites from Credit Suisse finds that not only have the number of high net worth individuals been rising dramatically over the past 20 years, those individuals are actually more wealthier than before.
“There's four times more high net worth individuals recorded than 20 years before, but the other key factor is the average net worth is more than three times higher,” Hallmark says the research says.
Those are great demographics for a company that caters to clients worth millions.
Interesting article. Another related observation....Seems alot of the GT buyers (like myself) are people who have been Porsche owners for alot of years (45 to 65 years old? I am 55), and, with money in investments, the bank and elsewhere, the desire to keep money out of equities and in a car or cars we enjoy is more pronounced than ever. I was speaking to a friend the other day who has far greater wealth than me, and he had been contemplating selling a couple of cars he never drives and, in the end, he asked himself "what would I do with the freed up cash? Have more liquid sitting on the sidelines earning little?"
I would think most people that buy cars in this space, and higher, are folks that owned business or businesses that made them a fortune over the last two years.
From a foodservice perspective, chicken breasts reached a peak of $157/40lb case back in June. That’s when you saw menu prices really ramp up. Chicken is the protein every restaurant makes a good margin on, and it was cramped back then.
Prices have now collapsed to $40-$45/40lb case, menu prices will never go back down, either.
Took delivery of my 991.2 C4s cab today, and I chatted with my salesperson and the finance guy about the demographics of buyers of Porsches these days.
Bottom line is that it seems that the vast majority of buyers can easily afford the cars and are paying cash. For the higher end cars, most buyers are business owners or otherwise have relatively high incomes (execs in large companies, successful lawyers, docs, etc.). Some have little or no income, but have relatively high net worth (sold a company, retired, inheritance). Some made a lot of money with investments and sold before things dropped.
Most of the higher end cars aren't driven much, people just want to have them as possessions, and apparently I'm an atypical buyer because I want to drive the cars.
If the economy weakens, I doubt that many owners will be pressed to sell the cars, though I suspect that some may sell cars to free up money to put into investments when the market is lower.
I was also told that in 2020 and 2021, a lot of buyers paid big premiums to get the cars because they didn't want to wait a year or two to get them, but the percentage of buyers willing to wait has increased in 2022.
Interestingly enough, a recent UBS poll of clients with investable assets of at least $1.0 Million told the company that 59% of them are positive on stocks, up from 50% three months ago.
More than half said they believe a recession has already begun or will this year. Almost 50% have already cut spending. And yet the GT3 still commands a pretty solid ADM.
I think this is mostly due to lack of supply. If Porsche could make enough to meet the demand, ADM would go away. No one seems to have confidence that supply chains will improve any time soon.
I think this is mostly due to lack of supply. If Porsche could make enough to meet the demand, ADM would go away. No one seems to have confidence that supply chains will improve any time soon.
The question is, why would you? The demand ebbs and flows like everything else. Luxury items need scarcity.
Important excerpt to note from the Bentley CEO:
“It's all about these higher price cars with more personalization, order bank driven, not stock build driven; and we've got the right formula, and we're going to be ruthless about maintaining that [profit] pool.”
Last edited by shrimp money; 11-02-2022 at 11:30 PM.
11-02-2022, 03:55 PM
