floatingkiwi

I got them from Apexperformance - can't remember wait time but quite short I think. Actually, now I remember I had them sent to some family in the US who sent it on.

John McM

Google brought up more forum posts than online sellers. Seems like a niche manufacturer.

I really like the sound of the pad mix to refine brake bias and the 'hand of God' performance descriptions. Only question now is whether they make them for older cars. I have my doubts.

Until Lola is retired I can't rest easy and better brakes is an easy upgrade.

mjg

They're only supplying the complete braking system on the 991 Cup cars.

Design911 have 08 (endurance) and 11 (sprint/medium race) compounds in your sizes: http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_-...-Discs---Pads/

John McM

Thanks Matt G. Very reasonable prices. Given your knowledge of the 964. Which compounds would you put front and rear from those choices? Maybe 11 in front and 8 in rears?

Macca

That's the spirit John.

You are both working from significantly different platforms here. You might both have 964s but unlike Paul and I who have almost identical base cars and have been sharing detailed information on how to obtain benefits (from experience) at "minimal" out lay your self and Doug have additional challenges. C4 v C2 (handling traits and weight), KWV3 (which Im sure have barely seen any experimentation in Dougs hands) vs Bilstein RUF, Z221s versus R888s, geo and also differences in driver experience with each platform. IMO you cant get an easy roadmap for time improvements till you get both cars running on the same rubber and swap keys for a session to better understand the traits of each set up. Afterall its not a race against others more a race against oneself. Ive been conversing with Paul constantly since his 993 arrived to understand how he finds various settings and improvements under real world track conditions, and although I think he'll agree there have not been any startling revelations its been a very worthwhile exercise for both of us to explore the limits of our platform in order to benefit our enjoyment and performance from our cars. Personally Ive enjoyed very much that Paul now has a 993 and I think Ive been as stoked as he is that the car has shown its capability down into the late 1.16s (still possibly a bit more left on the table). Its possibly a futile fascination but I am very keen to see the 993 get into the 1.15s at HD. Pauls no doubt the man for the job, but I respect he may be taking a different direction with the car in the future. As we all know the difference between 1.0s when in the 1.15-1.16 range is significant compared to say 1.19s to 1.18s, but non the less there is much to be learned from the experience of others here.

At the end of the day it has to be fun. Enjoy the journey as youll find its probably more satisfying than the destination. That's how I view it anyway. Like you Ive been on these boards well over a decade (Im fairly well know on 993 and GT3 boards) but it hasnt been until the last 2 years weve had this great little local community and its made my enjoyment of the marque even more pronounced. Im sure its the same for you.

mjg

I'd try 08 front and rear for a start. Then look at 01 or 11 in the rear next time around if you find you need more initial bite and different heat management in the rear.

mjg

You're way too focused on lap times, Macca.

John McM

My rears are pristine and wearing very well, whereas my fronts are toast. I think better cooling will help but I was noticing the car getting squirrelly at turn 1 braking. My thought is that I need more bite or bias to the rear. Does that make sense?

mjg

It's normal to wear fronts out much quicker than the rears. Even 2:1 pad/rotor replacement rate wouldn't be unusual. Squirrelly could mean lots of things, including the tyres being too hot, braking moving rearward due to front brakes fading, or being in a zone where a LSD might aid braking stablity... hard to say without data.

What you're trying to do when mixing compounds front to rear is have a compound in the rear that's in the correct operating temperature. It's possible to end up in situations where (since the rear does so little braking), the back pads never reach a high enough temperature for a race compound. That's why you will see people run race compounds in the front and regular road compounds in the rear quite successfully. In most cases, I'd recommend starting with that or by running the same compound front and rear and then adjusting from there if necessary.

John McM

Thanks. Makes sense logically and to my pocket.

Macca

LOL! Yes, almost as focussed as John on Lola ;-)

John McM

I think Doug is equally focused on Herman. In a later session, Patsy was pole and Herman was #2. Patsy pulled out with a tyre pressure alert so I kept my place and expected to run alone until Lola suddenly appeared in pole to 'keep me company'!

It turned out to be a great session with nothing remotely close to rubbing panels, but very competitive. I think the day told us something we both need to work on which is driving under pressure. Both of us overcooked braking points under our own pressure.

Overall, we've yet to see a real world difference for C2 versus C4, which is one thing that interests me. The other is benchmarking my skill increase. Doug is the current benchmark, but I'm also gunning for sub 1.19.57 which is the historic C4 road car benchmark. At that point Steve will probably pay me to get out and set a new benchmark with Herman

gt38088

Agree with Matty G. It is much easier to get a feel for brake performance with same pads front to rear. Otherwise performance changes with operating temps AND that also is influenced by how long and hard you are actually on the brakes. So behavior can be different at different corners. (at the limit)

Look at the graph on my previous post (link) just next to Matt's martini car pic.

Best solution IMHO is install twin brake cylinders and a balance bar, or as Macca talks about use the Pcar parts bin and find larger calipers/pistons etc for the desired effect but this is then a one off change.

Macca

Its healthy competition John and its all good. You have to have personal goals with this sort of thing or otherwise you are just circulating. The only way I can get a fix on the improvement of drivers and cars from 2500km away is your lap times at HD. That's why these empirical's are of academic interest to me. Its a bit hard to measure improvements in driver skill and car set up from my armchair any other way. As much as it may seem its all we discuss on this board I regularly communicate with most of you but email, so I can get a good feeling for where folks are at and whatsup! Its not simply a numbers game of course, but casing your own PB is the way I see it a huge part of the attraction to the track.

Frankly, I suspect if I lived in NZ, Paul and I would be having a Lola v Herman type moment as well. Some folk are competitive by nature, others more laid back - each of us have slightly different agendas. Some folk are more like Lauda out there and some are more like Hunt. Part of the fun really. Like sharing experiences and POV.

Maxem

When Lola retires there will be a 1:17 capable orange hot rod out there to chase you down into the teens - that is when I learn to drive it properly so you have plenty of time actually.