gt38088

QUOTE=kiwi 911;12490152]^^^^ Could be tempted to sell both the 993 & 6.2 GT3 and buy a 997.2 GT3 (just the usual catch of there needs to be one for sale......???)

Or,

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-928731620.htm

^^^^ Thank God they have taken truely terrible photos of this car and I have no reason to go to the north shore, coz I could seriously own this. I love these things and when I was a broke cadet and used to spend all my weekends renovating houses trying to get ahead, I used to tell myself I was going to buy a Fezza for my 40th birthday (even if the bank owned it).

Problem is I turn 40 in a month and the bank would own it at the moment (if I sold the 993 for $90K and it was say only $125K) - could be foolish enough.......... you only live once..........[/QUOTE]

Agree with Macca the 360 is a far better bet if you have to make that switch. But 997.2gt3 even better.......

Macca

There you go Paul. We just made it easy for you. Get the 997.2 GT3 as a one car solution. Failing that sell the 993 or GT3 and buy a 360 to keep the porker company :-)

kiwi 911

I think time is being soft on the 996 - it seems to be aging well? Are they prittier than a 911/964/993 - no, but you can't really say a 997 or 991 and a stunningly better looking car than a 996 (all IMHO).......

I have been soft on 996's for a while, I find them the more 'pure shape' than the 997 (and not just because I own one).

Part of the reason for buying the GT3 was the value proportion, I couldn't think of a faster, more reliable track day toy Pcar for circa $80K, or maybe $100K now?

At $70K, I was looking at 964 hotrod projects that probably needed work (as no one sells a car with a fresh engine and gbox), or an SC and hotrod with a 964 engine.

Seriously - what can you buy for $100K in Pcar money that will spin a 1.13/14 out of the box for less than a hundie? There are issues with Gen 1 997’s and Cayman’s, and Gen II cars are probably slower than an early GT3?

A Cayman R is the only alternative I can think of?

John McM

As much as Iove the R I'm the first to admit it is not a direct alternative to a GT3. I wanted a dd I could take to the track and I wanted a near new car. On those fronts it is perfect for me. Had I spent the same money on a GT3 I would have had to go a lot older and accepted higher mileage. Right now I have 33,000km on the clock and it still feels like new.

Macca

I agree. Thats why I said I "mostly" agreed with the previous 993RS/996.1 GT3 owners views on the GT3 after I owned the RS.

I actually didn't mind the looks of the 996.1 GT3 so much. I loved the wheels and the rear spoiler (incorporated the wheel design into my 993C2 shortly after). The Speed Yellow did help. Im always suprised at how much the colour of a car can matter. Jo hatted the yellow, I loved it and would have ordered the 991 GT3 in that colour if it had have been a standard colour (the new Racing Yellow has too much white in it IMO). The interior was a disappointment as anyone moving from a 964/993 to a 996 will Im sure agree. Dark, poor quality plastics and coatings, not very inspired although a significant ergonomic improvement when it comes to switch-gear. Parked next to the 993 the GT3 did look a little flat sided. It had lost its Coke bottle lines (the 993 has those more so than any other so probably not a fair comparison). The headlights didnt do it for me, the 996.2 GT3 was an improvement here. The engine was the standout point. More power but also higher revving and more torque too. On a fast B road the suspension was passable stiff, like the 993RS but would skip around a little when pushing on. I think they made the 996.2 even more comprised in this regard later on, but GT3/RS was never optomised for running hard on broken NZ/UK B/C roads.

I agree with time the 996 shape looks better - the earlier basic C2 cars particularly as they seem clean and more pure to the design ethos from which they were born. I think generally speaking the 997 was an improvement aesthetically on the 996 in all its guises. Many said they had reverted frm teh clean sheet of the 996 back to the 993 for some of the design cues. In some ways like the headlight treatment and the more Coke Bottle type lines I think that is true. I dont think the 991 generation moved things along from the 997 much in design terms. Width and length increased which diluted the original 1967-1997 lines somewhat IMO. Headlight treatment remained more 997 esq than 996 - I think they were too afraid to step outside the square again after the 996!

In terms of value proposition and dependent on application and usage there is no doubt the 996 GT3 is the sweet spot right now. It can run b roads pretty well, put in a 14 at HD and also remain reliable and relatively low overhead (assumes you don't fall down the "modifcation" rabbit hole!). The 993RS provided the same equitable balance when I bought it. I sold it for 40% more than I paid for it, then it went up 40% more again a few years later and that balance was gone. It was now an expensive car suited to be driven on the track. There were many cheaper alternatives available by 2005 including the 996 GT3 and even 997 GT3. Today even more so. The same will happen with the 996 GT3, the 997 GT3 and eventually no doubt the 991 GT3.

The point of my soliloquy was summed up in the last line. Its all a matter perception and relativity. Many motor journalists today (spotty Editor kid of Total 991 included) have no decent seat time in cars older than 997 gen. The 996 GT3 may seem raw and old skool to them, but they probably have never thrashed a 964 or 993RS. The Milford club will tell you the same about the 911R, 2.7RS and ST and hence I say its the same story from generation to generation. The simple fact is the cars are becoming more usable, more often, and yes by virtue of that easier to drive at the limit. But once you strip the nostalgia away that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO. Otherwise wed still all be driving the Morris 1300 we had when we were 17 to work right!

Macca

Oh, just one last thing Paul before Jake, Walt, Phil and Pel rib me for this....what else under 100K can you buy that will give you a fast lap time, a fast B road drive and cosset you and your kids to teh movies in town on a Sat night? Well a 996TT X50 would do it on MPSC2 and a stock 997TT would too :-)

Macca

Good points. I didnt address that parts of Pauls email as I have no direct experience with the R. I think also one aspect you didnt mention, is as well as an older and potentially more maintenance prone proposition, an early GT3 in your budget range at the time would have made a lousy DD car. This is the one area where the new GT3 really moves things along, and was very welcome in my opinion. An early GT3 would have had your left leg trembling by the time you got to the office and a fast B road Northland drive would have had you puckering up at 75% of the speed you can confidently pedal the R. The R is a more multi dimensional proposition than an older GT3 for everything other than track work. The new GT3/RS has these bases covered much more thoroughly. The transmission choice helps of course, so does the well appointed interior (modern tech like bluetooth phone etc), but the wheelbase, RWS and PASM2 dampers really bring things along. The 991 GT3 (R compounds aside perhaps in the rain or when very cold) is as effortless to live with as a 993C2 and as quick to drive in all situations on broken B roads as a GTS, Cayman or similar. Thats progress I suppose, although some will rue the passing of teh analogue (but isnt that what the secondary market is for? After all there 39 years worth of old Porkers to choose from out there...).

kiwi 911

^^^ Yes very true, the are great cars - but they are GT's, not track day cars (without heavy modification).

The 996TT is 1.18 out of the box, you need to boost them with another 50-100HP and do quite a few mod's to get to Walt's 1.16's and have bigger brakes etc for Chris B's 1.13.

Ron was only turning 18's in a 500-something HP 997TT too?

I do think Ron got down to 16's towards the end though? I think Pasty and he did some secret DT as all of a sudden they both found a few seconds a lap?? or have been sand-bagging............

kiwi 911

Agreed - GT3 needs splitter removed, ride hight lifted and suspension softened to be a DD.

Pel

These spec 996's have clean lines, 85k once in NZ though.

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...eels-more.html

kiwi 911

^^^ Like! Not used to seeing a 996 in anything other than black or silver.

Question is could you build one cheaper? - $30K to buy a manual 996 and $55K to develop it into that??

Macca

Yip. Ron got down to 16s. In your GT3 he would be lucky to do 16s too. Like for like tyres, same driver Rons 997TT was as quick as your GT3 at HD. Ron & Patsy rarely do more than 210 on the front straight. They told me they dont feel comfortable going much over 200 there. Fair enough, they aren't the most aggressive or competitive drivers in the group Id say.

Ron had a exhaust and chip on the 997TT. Probably should have mention that. It was making 520 bhp. Relatively cheap mod tho and for what his car sold for including that exhaust and mod was still well under 100K.

The line between Grand tourer and GT(3/4 etc) is being increasingly blurred as per discussion above. Progress/evolution I guess.

nzskater

Should be reserved for camping trips and show n shines only Matt.

Macca

Matt. Ask Paul why hes chosen his 993 for the next Northland dawn raid. Better still, join us :-)

kiwi 911

The invitation is there Matt, we always enjoy your company, but on a B road I'm in the 993.

Speaking of 993's, I see the silver manual 'flipper' is still for sale, given these cars tend to sell within a day, the market has spoken??