Macca

Doug. I did back in the original post above...

O2GO

So you did, my bad :-)

Runtothehills

look closely and the 993 they were taping was only a tiptronic. no worries.

I guess we aren't quite ready for one in nz yet. let alone a 3 stacker spoiler...

cbnz

Please don't take this the wrong way, it is not intended as anything but an observation. From the pit wall, it looked like you were not heel and toeing, so when you changed down, the rear "locked" which helped to initialise the spin. Just a thought...
As previously opined, initially we went out on DOTs, then changed to the Hankook wets, the difference was like night and day. They are great tyres if it is really wet.

O2GO

No probs. if you are referring to me I don't believe I had changed down at the point of beginning the spin. I think I was still in 4th as I began aquaplaning before reaching the braking zone. I usually initiate braking then heel and toe into 3rd shortly before turn 1 when enough speed has been wiped off. I heel and toe everywhere, even around town in the boxster.... It's become so entrenched it's hard for me to change down without doing it this way. Doesn't mean I rev match perfectly every time though.

However, it's possible that I mistakenly lifted off when the spin started making it worse. A natural (wrong) reaction that I thought about afterwards and figured I'd probably lifted off when Lola started aquaplaning and pointing slightly towards the wall. I suspect I corrected and may have lifted off at the same time :-(

However, memory can lie and you may be right. There may have been more contributing to the start of the spin than I'm aware of. From memory I was driving along the straight when it felt like I had moved from tarmac to ice which is why I've talked about the aquaplaning effect I experienced.

Ralf G

Hm, I think at that point of the track you do still have your foot full on the throttle. I don't think it happened during downshift. That's my opinion I might be wrong.

Macca

A guy I know has just returned from the M Power experience at the Ring. Two day training - proper training! He rated it highly (is a GT3RS owner who goes to the track regularly) e- ven if it did rain pretty much the whole of the first day.

We are closely considering a factory new M3 or quite possibly the new M2 Euro Delivery in spring 2016 and thought this might be worth booking whilst there.

Not sure if we could make an RSG event of it?

Thinking April/May.

I would be prepared to do the legwork to see if we can get a group deal if there is any interest here. Might also be a good opportunity for a few folk on here to buy a UK new/used Euro, drive it in Europe and ship back to NZ for a savings - even if its a Q7, Evoque or something similar as a family hack to keep the wife smiling.

Let me know your thoughts....

Ndewar

^^^^^^^^
Very interesting Doug and sorry it is a bit late to add to the conversation/analysis of the spins we experienced.
For what it's worth I would like to add some comments.
1. I had changed my wheels the day.before and put on my Michelin super sports. Much more tread than my track biased trofeo R s. Thank heavens . They are much better in the wet. There is a big difference between the traction you can achieve with road tyres and race wets. Race wets are great.
2. My line generally, in the dry, is close to the pit wall entrance . Cutting the corner as it were. Nigel , said he thought a wider line is better as there is less lateral force on the car even if the distance travelled is longer. Makes sense. His line allows a straighter breaking line and with little lateral force. Doug, your line was about a third of the way across the track from the pit wall entrance and I think I was maybe a bit closer to the wall. Immediately after the wall the car enters the grid formation and it was at this point, maybe at grid position # 7 that I lost it. It is at this point that there is still some lateral force on the car and could have resulted in both of us spinning clockwise.
3. The speed of the initial spin seems to me to suggest that there certainly was significant lateral momentum once traction was lost. I don't remember seeing standing water or streams and , Macca , the point I spun was way passed the areas you show on your photo.
4. I had felt loss of traction that day in two constant areas of the track. First and worst was about 100 m from the breaking marker on the straight before the sweeper. Second was close to the right side of the track at the breaking marker before corner 2. There was an obvious and avoidable stream of water before the first hairpin. I did not, before the spin, feel any loss of traction/ warning signs, breaking for corner 1 . Which is scary.
5.i think I was going a bit faster than the previous laps. Speed is the main factor obviously but the lack of warning/ suddenness of the spin makes it so difficult to judge what is the correct/ maximum speed you can attempt.
6. I was nowhere near changing gears or heal and toeing, which I do for corner 1. I think I was just coming off the petrol, lost the traction on the front and then the back whipped around.
6. Insurance is an issue and I think we need to be careful posting too much information re these events as there could be issues with some insurance companies. Does PCNZ have any liability if there is a serious incident? Who calls the sprints off if conditions are too bad? Should they have done so on Sunday? How do the videos posted affect the resale /value of our vehicles?

Totally agree with you Doug , porsche is the best to be in for safety. Speed is the problem, drive to the conditions, take a wider line , like Tim and the other race cars on the straight and slow down.

I don't know if that helps as is all very obvious. All I know is that I am very lucky and the car is fine. Sorry Doug.

John McM

In the video I shared with Doug, the back of his car was starting to come around at about the start finish point in front of my car here, maybe slightly further down the track but close. He was running a line almost the same as Ron in front of him.

Ndewar

Looking a that shot john, I reckon I started to spin closer to the start finish line as well. Could have something to do with rubber on the start line from the starts?

O2GO

All good points Neil and I agree with your comments about the parts of the track that were problematic. The only part I'd had concerns with before my off was the last couple of hundred metres leading into the sweeper which I too found very slippery. Don't need to be sorry Neil. I just drew the short straw on the day. Looking back I wish they'd pulled us all together after your incident and said, hey.... Slow right down up there. I honestly didn't know about your incident other than hearing you'd gone into the kitty litter on turn 1. I only saw what really happened when watching the video of my incident in the control tower. I'm sure the knowledge would have made some difference. I've only ever spun twice I think. Both on days like Sunday. Annoying that I'd never previously had an issue around the top end of the track but think I just got faster up there as the day wore on. Lots of lessons and I think a fair few of us have now got a lot more respect for the wet. And without proper wet track tyres, like cbnz had, we need to slow right down or abandon it for another fine day.

I blame myself, lack of experience (in the wet) and judgement of the conditions that developed during that final run. That caused my problem.

John McM

To reinforce the point about how far back this was, this is the earliest point I caught it on video and the rear is moving out at that stage. You will have to wait until 7/9 to see the rest ;)

O2GO

Looking at that image, that's the spot exactly. The image is etched into my brain. Where the front began to veer to the right.... At least that's how it felt.

996tnz

No, I considered the CG Lock but it looked like you needed to screw it onto the back of the buckle, which I wasn't keen on. Liked the idea though so ran with a $5 or $10 belt holder from the baby factory that they normally use to shorten belts for child seats. It just clips around the top section of belt and I keep it slid down tight against the buckle - all the time, even on street. The one I have doesn't hold with enough force to directly prevent submarining under the lap belt but does hold securely enough to keep the lap belt low and tight around the hip bones, so the belt's maintained proper positioning would probably stop it anyway. I'd be interested in checking one of yours out sometime though.

@Neil - thanks for commenting on what happened with you that day.

O2GO

Cross posts.... John I mean the image from within your car looking down towards turn 1