hacker-pschorr

Caustic

The only vette that overheated was the C7 Z06.

On another note I think it's funny that people are comparing a base model vette, matter how new and different it is, to $300,000 super cars. Either those people are shook because of what the new vette represents, or maybe its a demonstration on just how far the vette has come.

wizee

In general, I agree with most of what you’ve said. Porsche stated that the wet weight of a 718 GT4 (and Spyder) is 1420 kg, or 3130 lbs, and that’s with the base configuration of Sport Seats Plus and iron rotors. The PDK version would probably be 70 lbs heavier.

I expect GT4 PDK vs Chevy Z51 DCT, quarter mile timed and trap speeds will be near identical, but we’ll see when the tests come out.

On paper, the Chevy suspension is more advanced, but in general Porsche has a history of making “inferior” layouts and designs outperform their “superior” competitors. The significantly lower weight would also be beneficial to the GT4.

While the tall second gear of the manual GT4 would hurt slow corners, I expect the PDK version with better gear ratio spacing to not be hurt by the torque deficit - the Chevy may pull like a school bus at 4500 RPM, while a PDK GT4 might do the same corner with less torque but at 5500 RPM, and with less mass to lug.

My guess would be roughly identical track performance between the PDK GT4 and DCT C8 Z51 Vette.

I fully respect the C8 Vette - it looks like a solid performer again at a substantially lower cost than a Porsche. Building a car that can match the GT4 is no small feat, and of course future Z06 and ZR1 variants should comfortably beat it.

In Canada, I’d expect a Z51 LT3 C8 Vette with FE4 suspension (guess based on C7 Canadian pricing and C8 price bump: $94k CAD) to be around 3/4 the price of a new GT4 with leather interior ($125k CAD reasonably optioned). For a 3 year period of ownership, the GT4 would probably still depreciate less (dollars) than the equivalent Vette.

A future C8 Z06 should beat the 718 GT4 for less money, but that has always been the case for Chevy vs Porsche at equal prices.

The rear mid engine design should help the new Corvette better put down its power at low speeds, the interior is a step forward in quality, and it continues the excellent price per dollar Corvettes have always had. However, at least in Canada, when considering equivalent specs (not the $60k USD base car that’s probably $70k CAD), and historical depreciation rates, Porsche is probably cheaper to own, even after considering investing the price difference in a mutual fund. In the US, Corvette might be slightly cheaper after considering investing the price difference.

For the same cost of ownership, and comparable straight line performance, would you rather have a lightweight and semi-rare Porsche, or a large, heavy, and rather common Corvette? I’d take the Porsche, and that’s why I’m buying a 718 Spyder.

TexasRider

The previous GT4 was saddled up with the Limited Edition - now that all that malarkey is blown out and Porsche wants to sell the cars, maybe the value to value proposition presented above will hold up. The used market anyway is littered with GT4s for sale as the owners try to jingle some nickels out them. It won't be coming from me for sure. I won't pay ADM and never have yet. I also don't pay ADM back door either. Just my way.

Price on price the Corvette on track would blow away a 718 anything. I don't remember the exact numbers but give a GT4 they wanted 120 for vs the ZR1 at about the same costs, and Im pretty sure it wasn't close on track. The Corvette would be 5 or 10 seconds ahead unless the track is very tight.

Then it comes down to the subjective. Which do you want? What look do you want? Which is the better road car? Do you like P or C ? All of that.

StudGarden

C8.

Never liked Vettes but the C7 was acceptable. The C8 (assuming they can execute with quality and reliability) is just too good of a car for the money and really no compromise anymore.

For the hyper car buyers, Z06 May cross that line and the Zora will probably smash right through it 918 style for a small fraction of
the price.

Well done Chevy. Credit where it's due.

fast1

There are two themes that are repeated ad nauseam in this thread. Corvette interiors are inferior and they depreciate at an alarming rate, especially compared to 911s. So I did a quick google search regarding depreciation rates, and came up with the following links, which may surprise some.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/autos/t...he-u-s-market/
https://www.thedrive.com/news/24255/...ng-sports-cars
https://www.autobytel.com/sports-car...-value-131591/

Surge74

It’s funny how everyone is taking the $60K price as gospel. It’s a STARTING price folks. Just like you’ll never find a Porsche sports car for sale at its base price, the same will be true here. Chevy aren’t alchemists or philanthropists.

slc4s

I think its the STARTING price that has people excited. The idea that you can slap $20k in options on this thing and still be well within BMW M4 or Porsche 718 territory is what is interesting.

Surge74

At $80K there’s no way the C8 will out handle a Porsche 718. I used to be an automotive engineer at GM. The problem is the bean counters and decision by committee that kills any world class attributes.

My bet bet is the C8 will receive similar reviews to the C7: great value for the money but it’s not going to do much wrt the competition.

TexasRider

^^^^ Exactly.

And you are getting a heck of a lot of base, like 500 Hp to start , at the 60K beginning price point.

And GM may not be the old GM for the moment. There is always a time to showcase what you can do. Not like Toyota just did on the Supra.

I think it depends what "out handle" means to you. It is too early to tell - but I have an idea it is going to smoosh a 718. If their respective corner times are say the same, but it blasts by down the following straight, which one out handled which? Is 0.05 g significant ? What has what rubber on it? Which is tuned and set up best for the test? All of that. The 718 or the 911 T may indeed be easier to drive - but it depends on how hard you have to push it to keep those squinty tail lights in sight. I think at the new GT4 will give a good account of itself. But now bring the Vette up to the same price and go at it.

Surge74

Yes, if true. Until we see option prices, I wouldn’t hold my breath. Watch them hold out an LSD or other must have options and bundle them in an expensive option package.

soulsea

Maybe they'll get wise and charge $20k for entry and drive.

Or offer some magic technology like remote start.

Oh wait ...

billh1963

Very interesting. There was a time (air cooled world) when you could buy a 911, drive it a few years and then sell it for a decent percentage of the original price. Have Porsche's just become another commodity? Maybe so.....

Caustic

The C7 the Z51 pkg which includes limited slip, exhaust, bigger brakes, suspension sells for around $5k, C5 and C6 had similar Z51 pkgs at similar price points. The rumor is that the C8 pkg includes

• Michelin® PS4 Performance 3 Season tires†
• Standard FE3 Performance Suspension
• Larger 345 mm front and 350 mm rear brake rotors
• Extra cooling with additional rear-mounted third radiator
• Electronic Limited-Slip Differential
• Larger rear spoiler provides up to 400 lbs. of downforce
• Performance exhaust results in 495 HP

for about $8k. That is still under $70k, and still an incredible deal.

Now there may not be many base C8s around when its released, but you can order one direct from factory for the $60k price. So yes, it is funny people are comparing base C8 vettes to $300k super cars.

TexasRider

We ALL know who invented that and is the leader in that . . and we love them. And we buy it too.

I'm not saying this Corvette is perfect. Or even that I absolutely will buy one. I like what I see though and I would like to see and drive one.

I do think Chevy wants to sell these cars and yes with as little of discount as possible as they see it done across the road. Maybe 5% maybe 10%. But overall I think the prevailing idea is to sell them don't you? Only a few weeks ago the buzz was they were going to be 90-100 and up. Chevy and GM knew better than to try that and here we are.

Individual dealers may try the ADM gig for the first cars. I already know my position on that , and the big dealers will rake up the Corvette business. So that will sort itself out pretty quickly.

I think I saw the Corvette factory manager saying they will be going to 2 full shifts on the assembly line and production of this new C8. To me that means they are planning on putting some out the door. GM bosses had to sign off on that - so . . . I think it says they mean business.