View Poll Results: what do you think?
really clean, nice looking Vette....
174
31.46%
a very different Vette but we'll sure as hell take it.
165
29.84%
i'll be ordering one soon.......
98
17.72%
No thank you
116
20.98%
Voters: 553. You may not vote on this poll
Thoughts on the new corvette?
07-27-2019, 09:57 AM
#1681
Pro
6gt3 are very sensitive to set-up. A small change can mean a wholly different car. My 6gt3’s front end is the least “wandering” of almost any car I’ve driven, but it’s set up by gt3/Cup masters. The way mine is now set up, it’s just sublime on my backroads. I have the SPB for the track but have been doing less of that lately.
I agree the 6gt3 may not be the best value proposition but only because they’ve almost doubled in price from their bottom 7-8 years ago. There may only be a couple of hundred of clean, low mile ones left and they’ve now become collectibles. There’s a 12k mile one FS now on RL asking $104k. As the modern GT3 cars become heavier, more insulated, more refined, and more numerous, I predict a “flippening” of the GT3 value curve where the earliest (996) cars with all their quirks and mechanical rawness become more demanded. I for one plan to never sell mine as there’s literally nothing out there that could replace or improve on how it feels on my backroads. For me, it’s the perfect combination of the aircooled’s rawness with the modern cars’ power: an OEM hot-rod.
The C8, if it proves to be robust, may be a close to perfect “drive to/on/from track” car but I doubt that it will beat my Boxster or my 6gt3 for my backroads. I’ll drive one, then judge.
I agree the 6gt3 may not be the best value proposition but only because they’ve almost doubled in price from their bottom 7-8 years ago. There may only be a couple of hundred of clean, low mile ones left and they’ve now become collectibles. There’s a 12k mile one FS now on RL asking $104k. As the modern GT3 cars become heavier, more insulated, more refined, and more numerous, I predict a “flippening” of the GT3 value curve where the earliest (996) cars with all their quirks and mechanical rawness become more demanded. I for one plan to never sell mine as there’s literally nothing out there that could replace or improve on how it feels on my backroads. For me, it’s the perfect combination of the aircooled’s rawness with the modern cars’ power: an OEM hot-rod.
The C8, if it proves to be robust, may be a close to perfect “drive to/on/from track” car but I doubt that it will beat my Boxster or my 6gt3 for my backroads. I’ll drive one, then judge.
BTW: The 997GT3 cars that I have driven were a lot more planted up front.
I seriously doubt that a car that is as large and as powerful as the C8 will be enjoyable on the backroads if you are used to a 986/987 Boxster and a 996GT3 they are quite a bit more compact and lighter and less powerful in comparison. You open up a C8 and it will probably get into triple digits speeds with ease, with only paddle shifters to play with you might get really bored as well.
07-27-2019, 09:58 AM
#1682
Race Director
Originally Posted by n3rd
Dealer experience at Porsche?! HAHAHAHA! Maybe you're one of the lucky guys with good guy dealers around.
Porsche service is such a joke these days ... no different than any other Asian or domestic brand but you pay 2x more ... Most of the times the others are actually much better .... oh, you might get a free bottled water.
* Not all Porsche dealers, but I'd say at least 50% of them out there are a joke
07-27-2019, 09:58 AM
#1683
07-27-2019, 10:05 AM
#1684
I have a GT4 and GT3 among other cars. I’ve never owned a corvette in my life. The GT4 flat out sucks. The new one is worse than before because it weighs more and it still has $hitty gearing. Don’t get butt hurt that GM did something great.
Please tell me me where I could find a NEW GT3 or Turbo for 130?!
This place is getting worse than FerrariChat.
Please tell me me where I could find a NEW GT3 or Turbo for 130?!
This place is getting worse than FerrariChat.
The new one is worse? - the 718 Gt4 is 30kg heavier than the 981 GT4 - but then again you didn't know the powers that be decided weights needed to be quoted in a different way
. So what do GM do quote a dry weight for the C8 lolGM has done absolutely zip its put the engine in a bolt together chassis in the middle - it took them about 50 years to work this out.
Glad you have a GT4 and GT3 - you'll have something to compare to your new C8. You continually talk about HP, yet that's not what Porsche has ever been about. Thats why people buy them in preference to anything GM makes - quality trumps quantity every time.
The C8 only matters in the US - its irrelevant any where else
Last edited by groundhog; 07-27-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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TheMystro (07-27-2019)
07-27-2019, 10:12 AM
#1685
Rennlist Member
By wandering front end, I mean lack of front end stability, a bump on the road at 75mph that would not upset my 97NSX with the NSX-R suspension or my E46M3 with the AC Schnitzer suspension would upset the GT3, and my GT3 was stock height, considered modifying the car with the euro-spec 996.2GT3RS suspension bits but never got around it since I didn't enjoy the car. Due to the RR layout the car had corner entry understeer, then transitioned to neutral and then more understeer on corner exit, compared to a MR car that wasn't fun regardless of the great engine that it had in the back.
BTW: The 997GT3 cars that I have driven were a lot more planted up front.
BTW: The 997GT3 cars that I have driven were a lot more planted up front.
I have driven a nicely set up 7gt3 and my 6gt3 on the street and the track. Preferred the 6. And the under-steer that many complain about is completely resolvable by a proper set-up.
Before I got the 6gt3 in 2012 I was a mid-engine "maximalist" accusing all 911 lovers of drinking the Kool-Aid about their inferior rear-engine platform. After the 6gt3, I understood what the good 911 drivers were talking about. Nothing compares to trail-braking a 911 into a corner at the limit with all four contact patches providing almost equal traction due to the engine being so far back, then powering out of the turn as the rear digs in and hooks up.
I seriously doubt that a car that is as large as powerful as the C8 will be enjoyable on the backroads if you are used to a 986/987 Boxster and a 996GT3 they are quite a bit more compact and lighter and less powerful in comparison. You open up a C8 and it will probably get into triple digits speeds with ease, with only paddle shifters to play with you might get really bored as well.
07-27-2019, 10:29 AM
#1686
I have owned 2 Corvettes during my 3 decades of 911 ownership. They were huge mistakes. I get suckered into the “New Corvette is so much better built” hype. Every time I then question how can I accept this build quality owning German cars. I can’t and end up trading the Vette in at a huge depreciation. Probably the worst depreciation of any car model I have ever seen or owned. They were basically worth nothing.after a year. The reality is GM doesn’t have it in their DNA to know how to build a quality built vehicle. Even their top tier Cadillacs pale in comparison to a mid level luxury German car.
Fast forward a few years and my elderly neighbor buys the latest Z51 Stingray loaded up with the LT3 package.($81k). He asked me to set his car up for him and show him how it works. This was like owning the car without paying for it for me. We even did several Draggy times as he knows I have the gear for testing. After several runs in every drive mode the best 0-60mph time we could get was just under 5 seconds at 4.87 seconds. this is “suppose” to be a low 3 second car. My new BMW X5 50i M-Sport can do 4 seconds flat all day long 0-60mph with half a tank of gas with the same Draggy unit.
This was strike 3 for GM as they greatly exaggerate their real world performance numbers. I went online to compare our results and sure enough lots of videos showing the current Z51 having a hard time getting under 5 seconds 0-60mph. There was one video where the GM test driver couldn’t get under 5 seconds and then tried to dance around the poor performance. Why would any one thing the latest mid engine Vette will be any different? My neighbors interior looked great for 6 months but after a year everything started to rattle and the upgraded leather cracked prematurely (warranty issue). Dash has a bad thump noise (warranty). Leather trim pulling away at the doors (warranty) Radio/head unit went dead (replaced under warranty). Electric door handles get stuck randomly, engine over heating issue, etc... This car is babied and falling apart.
The C8 has been over hyped for a year now and yet many are accepting GM’s claims again as if they were the gospel truth. Not this guy. been there, done that too many times with Chevy. My best advise for the kids without a lot of performance cars under their belt, if you can’t tell the quality difference between a German Porsche/BMW, etc to a Chevy then you buy the Chevy and pay for your education with your own wallet. Better to wait and get a used Vette for a significant discount as they will be a dime a dozen in a few years.
Fast forward a few years and my elderly neighbor buys the latest Z51 Stingray loaded up with the LT3 package.($81k). He asked me to set his car up for him and show him how it works. This was like owning the car without paying for it for me. We even did several Draggy times as he knows I have the gear for testing. After several runs in every drive mode the best 0-60mph time we could get was just under 5 seconds at 4.87 seconds. this is “suppose” to be a low 3 second car. My new BMW X5 50i M-Sport can do 4 seconds flat all day long 0-60mph with half a tank of gas with the same Draggy unit.
This was strike 3 for GM as they greatly exaggerate their real world performance numbers. I went online to compare our results and sure enough lots of videos showing the current Z51 having a hard time getting under 5 seconds 0-60mph. There was one video where the GM test driver couldn’t get under 5 seconds and then tried to dance around the poor performance. Why would any one thing the latest mid engine Vette will be any different? My neighbors interior looked great for 6 months but after a year everything started to rattle and the upgraded leather cracked prematurely (warranty issue). Dash has a bad thump noise (warranty). Leather trim pulling away at the doors (warranty) Radio/head unit went dead (replaced under warranty). Electric door handles get stuck randomly, engine over heating issue, etc... This car is babied and falling apart.
The C8 has been over hyped for a year now and yet many are accepting GM’s claims again as if they were the gospel truth. Not this guy. been there, done that too many times with Chevy. My best advise for the kids without a lot of performance cars under their belt, if you can’t tell the quality difference between a German Porsche/BMW, etc to a Chevy then you buy the Chevy and pay for your education with your own wallet. Better to wait and get a used Vette for a significant discount as they will be a dime a dozen in a few years.
Yea, baby ! The elitism is flowing baby! I bet the boys on the Corvette Team are loving 113 pages of teeth mashing by the Porsche guys ! Twisting in the wind over the new C8. The C6 and C7 have been handing it to Porsche on the track for years and now C8 taking it to another level for half the money.
Keep the elitism flowing while paying 3000 dollars for leather air vents. In the meantime, C8 has sucked the air right out of the room.
07-27-2019, 10:34 AM
#1687
Yea, baby ! The elitism is flowing baby! I bet the boys on the Corvette Team are loving 113 pages of teeth mashing by the Porsche guys ! Twisting in the wind over the new C8. The C6 and C7 have been handing it to Porsche on the track for years and now C8 taking it to another level for half the money.
Keep the elitism flowing while paying 3000 dollars for leather air vents. In the meantime, C8 has sucked the air right out of the room.
Keep the elitism flowing while paying 3000 dollars for leather air vents. In the meantime, C8 has sucked the air right out of the room.
The C6 and and C7 handing it to Porsche for years lol really - 991 RSR WEC lol
But true - that drive to cars and coffee - winning all the way
The GM crowd tail gating at every opportunity as on the road as in life
07-27-2019, 10:37 AM
#1688
07-27-2019, 10:37 AM
#1689
Race Director
Originally Posted by groundhog
LOL thats why its in other marque discussions - where is the elitism -
That's exactly why it's in the "other marque" section of the forum ...
Don't you see the irony? All the threads got thrown into the basement here. C8 talk on the other boards is a threat to the establishment.
07-27-2019, 10:39 AM
#1690
Race Director
Originally Posted by n3rd
Yes, continually. I still love Porsche but as I’ve said multiple times maybe the GT4 will get the ACTUAL GT treatment.
Porsche plays games with their models. Neuters the GT4 to have its model hierarchy.
07-27-2019, 10:39 AM
#1691
What I find amusing is the fact that some do - as I keep saying its not about the money its about the experience. The C8 is the new Toyota MR2
07-27-2019, 10:44 AM
#1692
Yeah, I know but a GT4 with a base gear box would be faster. The GT4 3.8 has intake runners and exhaust manifolds are from the 2.7 cayman. It’s good for those who love mods but out the box the car could have been incredible with the right parts. The Gt3 is near perfection out of the box.
07-27-2019, 11:09 AM
#1693
LOL thats why its in other marque discussions - where is the elitism - I think its more the rampant insecurity of corvette owners on display.
The C6 and and C7 handing it to Porsche for years lol really - 991 RSR WEC lol
But true - that drive to cars and coffee - winning all the way
The GM crowd tail gating at every opportunity as on the road as in life
The C6 and and C7 handing it to Porsche for years lol really - 991 RSR WEC lol
But true - that drive to cars and coffee - winning all the way
The GM crowd tail gating at every opportunity as on the road as in life
I suggest you take a look at lap times from major tracks ..start with the C6 ZR1 and Z06 Carbon and go forward..I won't mention money comparison.
Btw, 8 Lemans championships for Corvette in 20 years. Face it, the C8 has made every other sports car launch, this year, irrelevant.
Back to the $5000 dollar mahogany door sills from the Emperor of Japans House ( honeymooners reference)
07-27-2019, 11:17 AM
#1694
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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Sigh, you are drinking the cool aid hard.
A car running a double wishbone suspension will need less static negative camber thus making better use of the tires compared to a car using struts (I know since I used to track my NSX which had a double wishbone suspension it required quite a bit less negative camber than my 98x based cars, had less HP and could generate similar lap-times). The shape of the contact patch of the tires will be different during braking and acceleration, a car that requires less static negative camber will make use of the tires better. What does that mean at the track?, better and more consistent lap times, better tire wear as well due to better load distribution.
The e-diff is much better at distributing the available traction than a mechanical LSD, there is a reason why most high end manufacturers are using them in their high performance cars, Porsche included.
One of the reasons why I liked the 981 GT4 was the 3.8L 9A1 engine, fairly common engine, if I needed a replacement for one reason or another it would be way less expensive than a GT1block Mezger engine. The engine on the 718 GT4 is bespoke great if you want to have exclusivity not so great when you are thinking down the road.
For "my" particular application a dime a dozen is "better" since the cost is lower and the availability of replacement components is better. If you go to the track enough there will be things that you will need to have replaced on the car.
BTW: Congrats on the 718 Spyder,
A car running a double wishbone suspension will need less static negative camber thus making better use of the tires compared to a car using struts (I know since I used to track my NSX which had a double wishbone suspension it required quite a bit less negative camber than my 98x based cars, had less HP and could generate similar lap-times). The shape of the contact patch of the tires will be different during braking and acceleration, a car that requires less static negative camber will make use of the tires better. What does that mean at the track?, better and more consistent lap times, better tire wear as well due to better load distribution.
The e-diff is much better at distributing the available traction than a mechanical LSD, there is a reason why most high end manufacturers are using them in their high performance cars, Porsche included.
One of the reasons why I liked the 981 GT4 was the 3.8L 9A1 engine, fairly common engine, if I needed a replacement for one reason or another it would be way less expensive than a GT1block Mezger engine. The engine on the 718 GT4 is bespoke great if you want to have exclusivity not so great when you are thinking down the road.
For "my" particular application a dime a dozen is "better" since the cost is lower and the availability of replacement components is better. If you go to the track enough there will be things that you will need to have replaced on the car.
BTW: Congrats on the 718 Spyder,
The more consistent camber angle under different loading conditions should give more consistent tire wear, and probably somewhat better rear grip. The E-diff can be controlled more intelligently than a conventional LSD. If it’s going to be heavily in tracked, less tire wear and cheaper parts would make it cheaper to operate. Porsche has never been competitive with Chevy in lap times per MSRP or consumable price, and the story continues here. It’s the same story as C7 vs 991/981, C6 vs 997/987, C5 vs 996/986 etc.
For my application (road car/garage queen), I find the Spyder nicer to look at, will probably be more fun and nimble, and cheaper to own too.
I still don’t expect the base C51 Vette to be very different in lap times than a PDK 718 GT4, but we’ll see.
07-27-2019, 11:26 AM
#1695
Great buy a C8 - no one is stopping you. I've seen GM products for 35 years, same **** different day lol Seriously get rid of your GT4 after all you think a 3660lb pound car is going to be nimble?
The new one is worse? - the 718 Gt4 is 30kg heavier than the 981 GT4 - but then again you didn't know the powers that be decided weights needed to be quoted in a different way . So what do GM do quote a dry weight for the C8 lol
GM has done absolutely zip its put the engine in a bolt together chassis in the middle - it took them about 50 years to work this out.
Glad you have a GT4 and GT3 - you'll have something to compare to your new C8. You continually talk about HP, yet that's not what Porsche has ever been about. Thats why people buy them in preference to anything GM makes - quality trumps quantity every time.
The C8 only matters in the US - its irrelevant any where else
The new one is worse? - the 718 Gt4 is 30kg heavier than the 981 GT4 - but then again you didn't know the powers that be decided weights needed to be quoted in a different way
. So what do GM do quote a dry weight for the C8 lolGM has done absolutely zip its put the engine in a bolt together chassis in the middle - it took them about 50 years to work this out.
Glad you have a GT4 and GT3 - you'll have something to compare to your new C8. You continually talk about HP, yet that's not what Porsche has ever been about. Thats why people buy them in preference to anything GM makes - quality trumps quantity every time.
The C8 only matters in the US - its irrelevant any where else
Although I don't own a GT4, I have lots of GT4 seat time. I can think of many terms to describe a GT4 but sucks wouldn't be one of them.