jdbornem

Totally not what I'm saying.

bdronsick

Mezger record just shattered yet again yesterday. Truly, prices keep drifting up

TomK1989

A little anecdotal evidence here:

The car that sold in charleston (that then immediately sold two days ago in FL) was almost an identical twin to a car that I purchased in May. I was working with a car broker who presented that auction to a collector he knew that agreed to sell me his C4S at that auction price. I'm a very proud and happy owner, but probably shouldnt have looked at the auction results on that car today... I suspected that would be the case but it really confirms it. I think it is reasonable though that the market on these has tanked a fair bit of recent. I am in the commercial credit industry and have noticed something over the decade I've been involved in this.

1) Cars at this price point are bought by different people than the cars at the 250k price point.
2) people at this price point (like myself) are more commonly affected by economic conditions. If you were in the market for a 250k GT3 there is also a good chance you are in a business that is somewhat inflation/economy resistant.

I flipped a house and sold in May at probably the absolute peak of my geographic housing market. I then was willing to likely overpay for a car because I was cash flush. Since then as the economic instability discussions have risen, I likely wouldn't be a buyer at the bigger price because there are other places I could put my money to try and make it work for me. However as in May I was like a drunken sailor with a recently cashed paycheck and didnt mind flying to AZ to throw some money at a mint 911.

The people that are at the top end of the market arent affected by the change in economic conditions as much (if they are negatively affected at all), and as such the market for the high end stuff doesnt suffer.

Its like the wine market. In an instable economic time, the overpriced mid tier market evaporates because the buyers of that product go down in price/value. The high end market stays strong as ever because people that have (or think they have) the means to regularly consume $150- $250 bottles of wine are still economically significantly strong. In short, the economy driving consumer purchasing is a poor person problem.



This does create an interesting dynamic with my car however. I was considering trying to keep the miles really low and then re-sell in a few years for hopefully either breakeven or a small gain. However seeing this makes me think that I have already taken a bath and its time to drive the **** out of it!

bdronsick

We're discussing Porsche 911's here. The 911 is the most expensive vehicle sold by one of the most exclusive luxury automakers in the world. Everything is high end. That is the point

It is somewhat absurd to note falling prices on the least desirable, most depreciated, and least typical examples of these cars. IE "Look the sky is falling because a 198K mile 2000 Cab, in Black/Grey, with three accident-Car fax, and automatic transmission, sold the day FTX crashed at a Buy Here - Pay Here in Encinitas, CA for $19,999.99!!!"

We can all bottom fish Craigslist links to $35K ragged-out rag-top 964's all day long. Hardly typical

pulpo

I think people get confused between 911 trends, the entire used car market, and ENTIRE markets. You can't ignore what is going on globally and declare "911 prices are trending down" unless you are doing a **** of a lot of research behind the scenes. The price of loans is going up and wealthy people finance things just as often as poor people do (if not more) just at much better APR. However their APR is still affected by the federal funds rate.

It's not a bubble popping, the cars aren't depreciating again suddenly. It's fluctuation in the markets. Prices are drifting up. That doesn't mean they're going up every day, week, month, or year. It means the overall trend is upwards.

TomK1989

You must be great at parties.

My post was in specific reference to one car that had multiple sales on the same sales platform within the 6 months. I'm not sure what your nonsensical ramblings of 198k mile 2000 Cab blah blah blah **** is.

A $67,000 C4S 911 is not a high end car. A $350,000 GT3 is. The people buying these are different people. They are impacted differently by the economic positioning of the US. If you cannot figure that out there is no point in discussing anything further.

Marv

Yes, you hit the nail on the head, as far as I can see. $100K is small change in the luxury market where new upper end Porsches easily draw two to three times that (partly due to ADMs). There is a used 25th anniversary Boxster at our dealer with 2K miles and a $126K price tag. The 996, although trending upward as the tides swell, is still the entry-level 911, which is not a bad thing—it's a good thing.

wdb

I don't know if it's a true story or not but I love an anecdote I heard long long ago about Dr. Ferry Porsche. He had just finished visiting Bill Harrah's museum (that's how long ago it was) and was asked by a reporter what he thought about the fact that the museum contained no Porsches. "Of course not", he said. "Porsches were meant to be driven."

You picked a good example to try for making a return on investment. You just picked a bad time. I'm ambivalent on the whole because I love cars and hate that so many of them are being priced out of my reach by predatory, transitory speculators. And I fell in love with driving my cheap unloved 100K mile 996. So my financial advice to you is drive the damned thing. And my emotional advice is to please not use cars as investment vehicles, unless perhaps you are a billionaire dealing in one-off pieces of automotive art.

hatchetf15

As long as 996 parts prices don’t fly off to ridiculous new heights, let Capitalism run amok. Get crazy all you buyers and sellers! The current price trends keep me sitting on my wallet. But, while I stay on the sidelines for the foreseeable future, I must adapt to the market passively. I can’t justify paying today’s prices to get the same-ish car from 5 years ago, and losing $20k to do so.

The key for all of us is to understand that if the 996 you have gets totaled out, you are generally getting thrown in to take a bath. New dynamic for the insurance coverage you need these days. Several posts and threads touch on the fact that agreed-value will take some sting out of the loss.

I wouldn’t recoup all that I’ve spent to make this car what I’ve always wanted, but the amount would get me nearly half way to a 997.1 Turbo. That helps me sleep better at night after I close the garage door.

Bash Hat

Reading these posts about C4S' and Turbos trending upward makes me glad I haveine already and not in the market looking for one. 92k miles on mine right now and looking forward to watching it tick over the 100K mark. Couldn't care less what it's worth, just lo e driving the s**t out of it.

The 100k mile thing is more of a US worry. In Europe, where I grew up, 100K was just another number. Nobody seemed to care if it had 70, 90 or 110k on it. Maintenance and condition were what folks looked at, not if it had 100,001 miles.

GC996

The market is just getting more selective. Not a bad thing, it's a good thing. It's showing that it wants quality and scarcity currently which is normal over a cycle. This forms a base for the next move up as we progress thru the current macro environment. I wouldn't sweat it. The 996 represents great value for a great car. Imho, it's on its way up over the next 5 years to a much higher level. What's not to love about the car?

frederik

It may be more rational than that. I don't view 100.000 km (60k miles) as huge mileage, but 160.000 km (100k miles) definitely feels different.

plpete84

People seem to look at mileage equally without considering the time it took to get to that mileage. 100k miles on a 2004 car is not the same as 100k miles on a 2015 car. But as it's mentioned above, mileage is just a number. It's how you care for the car that matters in the end. Just like with people, there are folks that can do a 100 mile bike ride at 60 and those who can't walk a mile without loosing their breath at 20.

Bash Hat

Just to clarify. The use of the "K" was to signify 000s, not Km. So 100K = 100,000 miles.

frederik

Of course!