Type65

It's funny, I have had almost the exact opposite experience. Prior to getting into Porsches pretty much everything I drove was from the 60s and 70s. So, I had driven all kinds of European 4cyl and American V8s all NA. And once I started looking at newer EFI cars I wanted to get into something turboed. I actually ended up buying a 951 a couple years ago instead of a 996 C2, for just this reason. I just recently got the C2, so I have the best of both worlds now. If a 996TT was in the cards, I would have loved that. Someday...

I can't complain one bit about the C2 though, it is a fantastic car and a blast to drive!

VintageCollector

Part of the phenomenon we're seeing now in rising prices that nobody is really talking about is really a product of trillions of dollars poured into the economy through both Bitcoin profits and also PPE and stimulus money due to the pandemic. It's actually happening across all sorts of industries and not just cars.

You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.

As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.

GoGoDoDo

DING DING DING! Thank god. The question is WHEN. I've been calling for a crash for > 5 years and instead only everything has gone up..so....don't listen to me. ;-)

GC996

Yep

VintageCollector

The last Porsche Turbo I drove (not mine) was a 930 25 years ago. I grew up loving Turbo charged cars and even built Watercooled VW Turbos as a kid in the late 80s. I always gave the turbo lag a free pass and it didn't bother me at all because the 'whoosh' was always the most exciting thing to me.

Fast forward to today's cars and the new TT cars are such a different animal power band wise that you can't even recognize them. You're making real power by 2500-3000 RPM which didn't happen until 4500 in the 930s.

Can drive around the city and leave it in a high gear and just dipping into the throttle a bit gives you gobs of torque. If you're above 3000 RPM you're pretty much faster than anything except for the top cars.

Today's turbo cars are nothing like previous cars.

But to me they are a bit harder to drive fast and less predictable than a normally aspirated car which you can predict the power delivery better, so there's that.

But man, I'm never going to get tired of that 'whoosh'. I'm a lifer.

user 8298308

Now why did you have to go and correct "wives" to "wife's"? had so many follow-up questions.

bdronsick

Well, 911’s used to be $4K now they’re $400K and most of that was long before bitcoin or Biden

Everything is always going up forever; especially and in particular Classic 911’s

The only variable is how fast

VintageCollector

To be fair, everyone always thinks everything goes up forever, but I have friends with homes and they're still either upside down or just about breaking even after the collapse of 2008.

I don't disagree that vintage Porsches will continue to appreciate, but it's not going to be a space ship ride. There might be some bumps along the way.

I mean, I just found out after being out of Porsches for a long time that you could buy a 959 for $250K 10 years ago. If I'd known that I would have gone broke trying to buy one at the time. lol

I would NEVER had thought you'd ever get one under a million, especially 25 years after they were released. But market forces can be fickle.

I think if we see a large drop in prices it's only going to be because the rest of the world economy is falling apart but as a general rule, they should keep going up at various rates, as long as the economy continues to do well.

Marv

.
As a general rule, cars make a terrible investment, so I don't see this being the real driver for the uptick. Yes, a few models do act as investments, but those cars are usually rare models with stratospheric prices where wealthy investors play.

I think multiple factors are in play here and your claim that the pumping by the Fed is a factor is interesting and probably has good merit.

My thought is that:
thing h
1. we are seeing a segment of Gen X, Y, and some Millennials acquire a fat personal portfolio and are snapping up cars that they dreamed about in their teens and college years. Same thing happening with the American muscle cars, so let's not forget the Boomers.

2. the semiconductor shortage (and other supply shortages) are crippling new car sales. That has put pressure on used car sales and if you can't get a new 992, maybe a used 991 would be good (for now), which drives up prices of the 991. Buyers that were considering a 991 suddenly find themselves priced out of the market so a 997 is the next choice, driving up that market. Someone originally looking for a 997 is hit with sticker shock and if they really want that Carrera are forced into the 996 market. Every manufacture is seeing a ballooning of used prices, so this is not just a Porsche thing.

So, your hypothesis of Fed pumping is probably helping both 1 & 2 by increasing purchasing power.

Is this sustainable? Probably not. Shortages will go away and inflation will dull things. However, prices on used Porsches always go up and down. The long-term trend has always been up after a few decades, but it never is linear. AS I said, most Porsches are not a good investment. If that's what you need, put your money in a solid mutual fund. But if you are looking for a good sports car, Porsche has a great track record of not disintegrating. Most of their cars are still on the road. Just don't use your purchase as your retirement portfolio.

168glhs1986

Can we substitute the word drifting with catapulting

theprf

The only downside of that would be, if you like to hear that wooshing sound be prepared for 14-16 MPG of premium gas! My range is usually 200 miles to a tank.
I can't help it; I'm addicted to boost.

Marv

That's going to get us all, normally aspirated and boosted alike!

wdb

Great stuff. I'll throw in my own WAGs.

- YOLO (1): The pandemic has raised awareness to the fact that we all go through this space-time thingie once -- as far as we know. Add the cash infusion from the feds/bitcoiners, and there is a significantly larger number of people today, who have it in their heads to do what they dreamed about doing NOW rather than later, than there was at the beginning of 2020.

YOLO (2): The truth of it, and the timing of it, are debatable, but there is nevertheless quite a bit of press release and journalism foo swirling around the death of the ICE. [See YOLO (1)].

168glhs1986

Cars used to depreciate and they will again....it's going to be a long time before your average and even nice driver 996 is getting back to MSRP. They were so expensive.

GC996

One of the things that should be in the back of our minds is that there is a democratization going in the investment community of which various firms are providing access to various "hard asset" investments for low minimums.

It started with crowd funding, then private credit, venture capital, private real estate, etc. and seems to now be happening with art. Who knows, it may happen with collectible cars, but I am unaware at this time of any company doing it. Doesn't mean it isn't occurring.

It's something to watch for. When a larger group comes to market, funny things happen with prices.

Let me also say that I am not a proponent of buying cars as an investment. If they go up in price, great. But they cost money to keep running. IMHO, cars should be bought for enjoyment.