Prices Keep Drifting Up
#5431
Racer
After driving 2.0l 4cyl turbos all my life, and now owning my turbodiesel truck, my wife's Korean turbo crossover, and my big turbo RS3 I sold back in July, my #1 criteria for my first 911 was a naturally aspirated engine. And I don't regret it. In fact, my next car will be NA too. Looking to get one of the final NA GTS engines Porsche put out and keep that thing forever.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
I can't complain one bit about the C2 though, it is a fantastic car and a blast to drive!
Last edited by Type65; 02-06-2022 at 05:25 PM.
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pulpo (02-06-2022)
#5432
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
#5433
Part of the phenomenon we're seeing now in rising prices that nobody is really talking about is really a product of trillions of dollars poured into the economy through both Bitcoin profits and also PPE and stimulus money due to the pandemic. It's actually happening across all sorts of industries and not just cars.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
#5434
Rennlist Member
Part of the phenomenon we're seeing now in rising prices that nobody is really talking about is really a product of trillions of dollars poured into the economy through both Bitcoin profits and also PPE and stimulus money due to the pandemic. It's actually happening across all sorts of industries and not just cars.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
#5435
After driving 2.0l 4cyl turbos all my life, and now owning my turbodiesel truck, my wife's Korean turbo crossover, and my big turbo RS3 I sold back in July, my #1 criteria for my first 911 was a naturally aspirated engine. And I don't regret it. In fact, my next car will be NA too. Looking to get one of the final NA GTS engines Porsche put out and keep that thing forever.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
Fast forward to today's cars and the new TT cars are such a different animal power band wise that you can't even recognize them. You're making real power by 2500-3000 RPM which didn't happen until 4500 in the 930s.
Can drive around the city and leave it in a high gear and just dipping into the throttle a bit gives you gobs of torque. If you're above 3000 RPM you're pretty much faster than anything except for the top cars.
Today's turbo cars are nothing like previous cars.
But to me they are a bit harder to drive fast and less predictable than a normally aspirated car which you can predict the power delivery better, so there's that.
But man, I'm never going to get tired of that 'whoosh'. I'm a lifer.
Last edited by VintageCollector; 02-06-2022 at 05:47 PM.
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pulpo (02-07-2022)
#5436
After driving 2.0l 4cyl turbos all my life, and now owning my turbodiesel truck, my wife's Korean turbo crossover, and my big turbo RS3 I sold back in July, my #1 criteria for my first 911 was a naturally aspirated engine. And I don't regret it. In fact, my next car will be NA too. Looking to get one of the final NA GTS engines Porsche put out and keep that thing forever.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
I'm sure the twin turbo system in Porsches is much more refined than the turbos I experienced and I do hope to have the chance to drive one someday soon, but there's just something so natural about... natural.
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pulpo (02-07-2022)
#5437
Rennlist Member
Well, 911’s used to be $4K now they’re $400K and most of that was long before bitcoin or Biden
Everything is always going up forever; especially and in particular Classic 911’s
The only variable is how fast
Everything is always going up forever; especially and in particular Classic 911’s
The only variable is how fast
Part of the phenomenon we're seeing now in rising prices that nobody is really talking about is really a product of trillions of dollars poured into the economy through both Bitcoin profits and also PPE and stimulus money due to the pandemic. It's actually happening across all sorts of industries and not just cars.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
Last edited by bdronsick; 02-06-2022 at 05:49 PM.
#5438
I don't disagree that vintage Porsches will continue to appreciate, but it's not going to be a space ship ride. There might be some bumps along the way.
I mean, I just found out after being out of Porsches for a long time that you could buy a 959 for $250K 10 years ago. If I'd known that I would have gone broke trying to buy one at the time. lol
I would NEVER had thought you'd ever get one under a million, especially 25 years after they were released. But market forces can be fickle.
I think if we see a large drop in prices it's only going to be because the rest of the world economy is falling apart but as a general rule, they should keep going up at various rates, as long as the economy continues to do well.
Last edited by VintageCollector; 02-06-2022 at 05:57 PM.
#5439
Rennlist Member
Part of the phenomenon we're seeing now in rising prices that nobody is really talking about is really a product of trillions of dollars poured into the economy through both Bitcoin profits and also PPE and stimulus money due to the pandemic. It's actually happening across all sorts of industries and not just cars.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
You not only have people with extra money driving up prices, you have people who are looking to park money in something due to inflationary pressure. They're worried about where to park their money and so are parking it in collectibles and hard assets, further driving up prices.
As the taps tighten and interest rates rise, you're going to likely see prices stabilize on many if not most non-discretionary spending.
As a general rule, cars make a terrible investment, so I don't see this being the real driver for the uptick. Yes, a few models do act as investments, but those cars are usually rare models with stratospheric prices where wealthy investors play.
I think multiple factors are in play here and your claim that the pumping by the Fed is a factor is interesting and probably has good merit.
My thought is that:
thing h
1. we are seeing a segment of Gen X, Y, and some Millennials acquire a fat personal portfolio and are snapping up cars that they dreamed about in their teens and college years. Same thing happening with the American muscle cars, so let's not forget the Boomers.
2. the semiconductor shortage (and other supply shortages) are crippling new car sales. That has put pressure on used car sales and if you can't get a new 992, maybe a used 991 would be good (for now), which drives up prices of the 991. Buyers that were considering a 991 suddenly find themselves priced out of the market so a 997 is the next choice, driving up that market. Someone originally looking for a 997 is hit with sticker shock and if they really want that Carrera are forced into the 996 market. Every manufacture is seeing a ballooning of used prices, so this is not just a Porsche thing.
So, your hypothesis of Fed pumping is probably helping both 1 & 2 by increasing purchasing power.
Is this sustainable? Probably not. Shortages will go away and inflation will dull things. However, prices on used Porsches always go up and down. The long-term trend has always been up after a few decades, but it never is linear. AS I said, most Porsches are not a good investment. If that's what you need, put your money in a solid mutual fund. But if you are looking for a good sports car, Porsche has a great track record of not disintegrating. Most of their cars are still on the road. Just don't use your purchase as your retirement portfolio.
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VintageCollector (02-06-2022)
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bdronsick (02-06-2022)
#5441
Race Car
I can't help it; I'm addicted to boost.
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VintageCollector (02-06-2022)
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VintageCollector (02-06-2022)
#5443
Rennlist Member
.
As a general rule, cars make a terrible investment, so I don't see this being the real driver for the uptick. Yes, a few models do act as investments, but those cars are usually rare models with stratospheric prices where wealthy investors play.
I think multiple factors are in play here and your claim that the pumping by the Fed is a factor is interesting and probably has good merit.
My thought is that:
thing h
1. we are seeing a segment of Gen X, Y, and some Millennials acquire a fat personal portfolio and are snapping up cars that they dreamed about in their teens and college years. Same thing happening with the American muscle cars, so let's not forget the Boomers.
2. the semiconductor shortage (and other supply shortages) are crippling new car sales. That has put pressure on used car sales and if you can't get a new 992, maybe a used 991 would be good (for now), which drives up prices of the 991. Buyers that were considering a 991 suddenly find themselves priced out of the market so a 997 is the next choice, driving up that market. Someone originally looking for a 997 is hit with sticker shock and if they really want that Carrera are forced into the 996 market. Every manufacture is seeing a ballooning of used prices, so this is not just a Porsche thing.
So, your hypothesis of Fed pumping is probably helping both 1 & 2 by increasing purchasing power.
Is this sustainable? Probably not. Shortages will go away and inflation will dull things. However, prices on used Porsches always go up and down. The long-term trend has always been up after a few decades, but it never is linear. AS I said, most Porsches are not a good investment. If that's what you need, put your money in a solid mutual fund. But if you are looking for a good sports car, Porsche has a great track record of not disintegrating. Most of their cars are still on the road. Just don't use your purchase as your retirement portfolio.
As a general rule, cars make a terrible investment, so I don't see this being the real driver for the uptick. Yes, a few models do act as investments, but those cars are usually rare models with stratospheric prices where wealthy investors play.
I think multiple factors are in play here and your claim that the pumping by the Fed is a factor is interesting and probably has good merit.
My thought is that:
thing h
1. we are seeing a segment of Gen X, Y, and some Millennials acquire a fat personal portfolio and are snapping up cars that they dreamed about in their teens and college years. Same thing happening with the American muscle cars, so let's not forget the Boomers.
2. the semiconductor shortage (and other supply shortages) are crippling new car sales. That has put pressure on used car sales and if you can't get a new 992, maybe a used 991 would be good (for now), which drives up prices of the 991. Buyers that were considering a 991 suddenly find themselves priced out of the market so a 997 is the next choice, driving up that market. Someone originally looking for a 997 is hit with sticker shock and if they really want that Carrera are forced into the 996 market. Every manufacture is seeing a ballooning of used prices, so this is not just a Porsche thing.
So, your hypothesis of Fed pumping is probably helping both 1 & 2 by increasing purchasing power.
Is this sustainable? Probably not. Shortages will go away and inflation will dull things. However, prices on used Porsches always go up and down. The long-term trend has always been up after a few decades, but it never is linear. AS I said, most Porsches are not a good investment. If that's what you need, put your money in a solid mutual fund. But if you are looking for a good sports car, Porsche has a great track record of not disintegrating. Most of their cars are still on the road. Just don't use your purchase as your retirement portfolio.
- YOLO (1): The pandemic has raised awareness to the fact that we all go through this space-time thingie once -- as far as we know. Add the cash infusion from the feds/bitcoiners, and there is a significantly larger number of people today, who have it in their heads to do what they dreamed about doing NOW rather than later, than there was at the beginning of 2020.
YOLO (2): The truth of it, and the timing of it, are debatable, but there is nevertheless quite a bit of press release and journalism foo swirling around the death of the ICE. [See YOLO (1)].
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#5445
Rennlist Member
One of the things that should be in the back of our minds is that there is a democratization going in the investment community of which various firms are providing access to various "hard asset" investments for low minimums.
It started with crowd funding, then private credit, venture capital, private real estate, etc. and seems to now be happening with art. Who knows, it may happen with collectible cars, but I am unaware at this time of any company doing it. Doesn't mean it isn't occurring.
It's something to watch for. When a larger group comes to market, funny things happen with prices.
Let me also say that I am not a proponent of buying cars as an investment. If they go up in price, great. But they cost money to keep running. IMHO, cars should be bought for enjoyment.
It started with crowd funding, then private credit, venture capital, private real estate, etc. and seems to now be happening with art. Who knows, it may happen with collectible cars, but I am unaware at this time of any company doing it. Doesn't mean it isn't occurring.
It's something to watch for. When a larger group comes to market, funny things happen with prices.
Let me also say that I am not a proponent of buying cars as an investment. If they go up in price, great. But they cost money to keep running. IMHO, cars should be bought for enjoyment.
Last edited by GC996; 02-06-2022 at 07:23 PM.
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