brontosaurus

Check ebay and your wildest dreams will come true.

168glhs1986

I don't BS. When you are in the know, you're in the know. I could show you a few recent examples, would that make you happy?

For now how about doing this....log onto BAT, read the chat for some of the recent E30 M3 examples. All of it. See what conclusions you can draw from your research.

If anyone on BAT thinks that every car that get's SOLD after it's SOLD you are being a little too niave. Please don't take offense.

I don't have facebook so I can't show you personally there. I have peronally owned 25 ish E30 M3's (not for profit but for fun) over the last 5 years and know that market extremely well. Still very much plugged in as I currently own 5. All children to me and all with different power plants / uses. blah blah blah whatever right?

I do know for a fact the $250,000 BAT car which was sold by a friend of mine.....was actually paid for and went to it's new owner. Many still dispute this fact today.

Again, if you know you know.

bmchan

Why yes! Thanks.

bdronsick

I think what could be typical of cars selling and then immediately showing up for sale elsewhere is an unscrupulous seller shilling up a no-reserve auction, or pumping prices over the reserve, and then getting caught high bidder at end of auction. That will cost them the Buyer's 5% fee to play that game. And of course a lost sale. Not really any way for the auction house to police that type activity at the scale of BaT; and why should they, as they get paid regadless. Typical "used car sales" tactics and those are everywhere anyway. You'll never de-slime the used car biz. Never

168glhs1986

Sold but not sold:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-bmw-m3-62/

Sold but not sold:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-bmw-m3-147/

I could go on and on

joetaf27

Looks like those two involved the same bidder...

bdronsick

Oy vey

168glhs1986

Those examples are. There are plenty more examples of e30 m3 and others.

Im sorry but it’s naive to think all sales go through. It’s an easy credit card dispute and BAT can only relist it for no charge. They won’t admit to such things because it’s bad for their business.

just look at all the cars relisted from non payers auction winners.

Ans those are in the minority imo. I would say Most just take their car and sell it elsewhere after their sour BAT experience.

For the sellers it’s an aweful experience. They think they get top dollar from the auction, not only do they not get anything but their cars are forever whored out and everyone thinks it’s sold

pulpo

It is a problem. Any time you have open bidding that is free to anyone, the seller (or the seller's close friend) can just make an account and bid up the auction. If they accidently win, they can dispute the charge and have the site relist it, or they can just go through with the sale if it's worth it to get out of a bad deal (another way of thinking about it is you can essentially pay BaT 5 grand to manipulate a market. If you were a big time collector.) Losing up to 5 grand would deter most sellers from trying this I think but your credit card company will go to bat for you at least once.. Also, these sites say that they do not re-list cars with the same owner as a general rule. But we've seen that's definitely not set in stone. A partial solution is to charge people to bid, like they do at real car auctions. But you will lose ~95% of your website's hits and it doesn't fix all the problems.

Having said that. Of course there are real sellers and buyers doing legit business on BaT every day. I know because I have bought cars on these sites. My guess is many more legit sellers/buyers than scammers/attempted market manipulators

168glhs1986

Absolutely. In would love to be privy to their numbers of sold / no pay buyers

I’m guessing it’s less than 5% but when they first started I’m also guessing it was closer to 0%. In any case it’s just normal business as you grow type of stuff to deal with and it will get worse unless they change how they do busijwss.

It’s an easy out for the seller since BAT doesn’t go into great detail on their auctions.

Just one example I’ve been privy to.... buyer meets seller. Says oh wow look at this. This wasn’t disclosed I’m going to renegotiate the price. Seller says the hell you are. Buyer calls credit card company and tells them the car was falsely advertised. Refund granted.

seller is stuck with a whored out car and buyer potentially comments on thread how car wasn’t as advertised.

ive bought 2 cars from BAT. I would never act in such a manner. My word is my word. Unfortunately I’ve been around long enough to know I’m becoming the minority when selling / buying cars

I have had 3 recent amazing experiences with the 996’s and 1 aweful one. The aweful one is local and if I ever see him again we will Definately be having a meeting. I did get his car though she is a gem

bmchan

So where are they subsequently listed on a forum?

168glhs1986

Dude you're an interesing one....Please don't join this forum. We try to keep the riff raff away.

1988 M3 Lachsilber on Black on Bring a trailer - S14.net (vbulletin.net)

bmchan

So that vbulletin forum listing on 10/5 refers back to the open BAT auction which closes on 10/6. You're full of crap. BAT works and there is nothing nefarious going on.

joetaf27

Buyer didnt follow through on a 80k car will be out approx 4k in bat fees. Non refundable. Whats unfair is the seller has to relist the car. Seems as though that fee should be split.

work_truck

Did you miss the last post?