The Macans and Cayennes that I've purchased never had more 10% of the base price in options. Why? Because these are my real estate cars which I put a ton of miles driving around showing/selling homes so I go through them in 12-18 months (my 2021 Macan that I traded in after 15 months for a 2022 Macan had 36k miles on it) so I get the bare essentials (premium packages, heated seats, ventilated seats, etc). Also, I won't drive a Macan or Cayenne out of factory warranty.

 

Agreed.

And I think the comparison between GT cars and CarMax is like comparing "apples" with "oranges".
The correlation is probably negligible at best.

Meanwhile, Premier in Fremont (Bay Area) has a 4 month lead time to making an appointment for PPF.
I guess there will always be rich people buying Porsche's, McLaren's, and Ferrari's.

Even with mortgage rates more than doubling to 6.7%

 

Outside usctrojan it seems everyone here has this crazy narrative Porsche values can do no wrong cannot slip in any circumstance.

in 2009-11 Porsche couldn’t give their cars away On the lot. Turbos we’re going for 30k+ off new lol

996 turbos we’re 30k, 1/4 of the new price.

imagine if u told a turbo owner today their car would be worth 25% of the sticker In 6 years….hard to believe but it was the norm not so long ago

 

The ICE is on Death Row.

 

yeah and that lol

I don’t think gen z or after is gonna be buying any of these ICE Porsches

 

The problems is you may have heard “ there is no substitute” the values will hold up - and bet on Porsche raising the msrp dramatically in 2024 and 2025 given the inflation excuse. They will suck up some of the dealers crazy profits on over msrp pricing for themselves. As a public company every penny in earnings will make the shareholders richer.

there will be msrp pricing for good customers on standard models - my son just received a delivery of a base Carrera at msrp and I added a msrp allocation for December delivery on a 2023 Panamera 4 Executive hybrid and I had secured an msrp delivery at year end of a 911 GTS Cabriolet America. I cancelled the America because Porsche would not allow me to spec chalk interior and blue fabric top. The idea was an American themed car - but a black top and black interior just seemed wrong in my mind. Probably should have kept that one anyway.

below msrp except for a courtesy discount of $2000 is not happening even for good customers for a long time or ever.

 

Times are a little different down. You have 19 year old girls with a million in the bank from showing their butthole on Onlyfans. You have fat people rich AF from recording themselves eating inside their car. Some might say millennials are lazy, but they’re just refusing the old way of making money in this world. Gone are the days of working 30 years for corporate only to be able to retire with $2 mil in your 401k.

Money moves fast as F now. I used to sell on eBay back in 1999, and people would mail me a check with a letter saying they won XXXX auction, and please ship their item to provided address.

 

Maybe in 50 years. There will be ICE cars for the wealthy, as they’re toys for the elite.

 

Holding my breath to grab a gt3 for 100k 😎

 

If 992 turbos or GT3’s are selling for 25% of their msrp everyone will be financially destroyed—- the 992’swill hold their value. Their are enough buyers that pay cash and are 65 to 80 who know their time is limited and in reality their money is not. The crazy flippers will get hurt that make huge monthly payments or worse lease these toys. But maybe call your nearest Porsxhe dealer and let them know you will pay 25% of msrp on a Turbo or GT3 allocation - “give me a call”.

I agree that paying ADM dollars is very risky - personally I have never paid this type of extra markup. I bought my 2021 Targa 4, my 2022 GT4, a 2022 Boxster GTS and found my son a base Carrera 2022 allocation also and waiting for a Panamera 4 hybrid executive - all at msrp. Oops-did get $2,000 off on the GTS Boxster. No watches or add one etc. and from three different dealers.

I was offered a GT3 at $50,000 ADm when they first came out but I passed - not a good decision so Far- but I don’t really need a hard core track car and they ride too rough.

also had an allocation for a Cabriolet America Edition at msrp - they did suggest I buy a watch for $6,000 - but I ended up canceling this as I finally decided it was really an ugly fixed build. I bought the watch anyway from the dealer just to show good faith.

it will likely sell for more than msrp since there will only be 100 — ugly or not.

I have a hood relationship with three dealers —and they know I have bought cars from the other two - so they do compete for my business - it is in their blood.

I email them all periodically- send them info of interest- talk to them and I try to show my appreciation for their help.

I want to replace a few cars with a base turbo - ideally a 992.2 Turbo coupe- and I have a request with all three and will take the allocation that comes along first at msrp.
All three told me also that Porsche has told dealers that they will increase production over the next several years - so It would seem likely the ADM on regular models will disappear but the GT cars and special editions will likely command some msrp or will only get allocated to repeat customers that not only buy cars from them but trade cars they have sold back to them.

 

They are both fruit, they both grow on trees, they both are commonly made into juice, sounds like they have a lot in common. If you actually dig into the reason CarMax shares tanked, it would make a bit more sense. Lithia and Autonation also had similar monthly declines, double the movement of major indexes in the same time period.. KMX is often used as indicator of the overall vehicle market, similar to how WMT and AAPL are used to measure consumer confidence. No one is arguing that Porsche will not be sold anymore, its if they will continue to be sold with $125K ADMs. Rich people will always spend, but they do not overspend or overpay in a downturn.

 

Post of the decade, and it's only 2022.

​​​

 

Most likely because Generation Z is from birth years 1997 - 2012.
40% of them arent old enough to drive yet.
lol

 

Perhaps I should have provided an even more obtuse idiom such as comparing "apples" to "potatoes"

I'm aware of why CarMax shares cratered
I've been involved in the financial markets since 1980.
I'm aware of "canary in a coal mine" economic indicators like WMT and AAPL.

But I would suggest that the Porsche GT car buying crowd isnt highly correlated with the Used Car KMX crowd.
That crowd has been buoyed by extremely low interest rates and fiscal stimulus payments which have all vanished.
That crowd is very much more interest rate sensitive for affordability purposes relative to the GT Porsche car crowd.

Personally, I dont know of anyone that has paid a $125,000 ADM.
Do you?

I seriously question that number and I think that it gets tossed around rather dramatically in some of these forums.

I cant speak for other demographic areas, but here in the Bay Area the highest ADM that I've seen was $110,000 at Carlsen in Redwood City near the heart of Silicon Valley and that was 3 months ago.I would say that the current going ADM "rate" is much closer to $75,000 here in the Bay Area. That having been said, a 2022 Agate Grey GT3 Touring with 450 miles sold for +$95,000 over its $205,000 sticker on Bring a Trailer last month.

Could ADM's go lower as the stock market goes lower?
Of course they can.

But I suspect that there will still be an ADM all through MY 2023 and 2024.
And I suspect that Porsche continues to raise the MSRP just like they did for MY2023 (+$8600), although maybe not as much.
I have no idea if there are still allocations and build slots available from here on out. Most of the time my dealer knows very little.
I seriously doubt anyone really knows with any certainty.

Moreover, no one really knows how Porsche will be IMPACTED by continued supply chain issues going forward and how their GT car production may potentially become "limited."
Especially in 2023, where Germany will be experiencing one of the biggest economic contractions since WW-II primarily due to energy costs having tripled and inflation running at 10%.
As it stands right now, Germany has their nat-gas supply in storage at 85%. That's good enough storage for up to 2.5 months this winter. But then what???

Chancellor Scholz has been in the Middle East trying to procure nat-gas deals with the UAE for an LNG shipment to Hamburg by the end of the year.
Other long-term deals are being made with Qatar, but those deliveries wont start until 2026.
And of course, the big white elephant in the room is a Mad Man named Vladimir.
Nord Stream 1 and 2 are shuttered.

At the end of the day, there are people in their 60's like myself that have more money than time.
I paid cash for my GT4 and will be paying cash for my GT3.
But time is something that I am unable to "buy."

Life is very short for some of us.
Enjoy it while you can!

 

Are you trying to bait @Yippiekiaye because that sounds awfully suspicious to what his build was, minus the Touring part?