Stop Sale Campaign on 911 with Sport Chrono?
12-04-2020, 01:43 PM
#376
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I wonder how many customers who come in to a Porsche dealer looking for a late model used 911 end up getting switched to a shiny new 992 because of the stop sale campaign. I also wonder if the dealers are wholesaling affected cars they take in on trade instead of holding them until the stop is lifted.
More questions than answers in all of this mess.
12-04-2020, 02:14 PM
#379
12-04-2020, 03:20 PM
#380
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My two cents is that there is no way I would purchase a 991.1 or any Porsche that is on the “no sale” list until more is known about any potential remedy. And as the owner of a car that is on the list (991.1 GTS) I personally could not in good conscience sell the car to a party that was unaware until they knew what I knew, which right now is not much.
This has not reached the same level of public knowledge that Dieselgate did. The lawsuit is just scumbag lawyer ambulance chasing motivated by legitimate news stories from last summer about the investigation (any scumbag lawyers on the thread excepted, of course).
To think that the value of our cars has gone up due to this seems questionable to me. If anything, our cars are probably sale-proof at the moment if a potential buyer is aware of the issue.
This has not reached the same level of public knowledge that Dieselgate did. The lawsuit is just scumbag lawyer ambulance chasing motivated by legitimate news stories from last summer about the investigation (any scumbag lawyers on the thread excepted, of course).
To think that the value of our cars has gone up due to this seems questionable to me. If anything, our cars are probably sale-proof at the moment if a potential buyer is aware of the issue.
12-04-2020, 03:21 PM
#381
https://www.myright.de/magazin/abgas...1-und-panamera
"Im Juli 2020 hat der Bundesgerichtshof in einem Fall gegen Volkswagen (VI ZR 5/20) entschieden, dass einem Käufer, der bei Kauf des Fahrzeugs Kenntnis darüber hatte, dass eine unerlaubte Manipulation durch den Hersteller vorliegen könnte, keinen Anspruch auf Entschädigung hat."
"Im Juli 2020 hat der Bundesgerichtshof in einem Fall gegen Volkswagen (VI ZR 5/20) entschieden, dass einem Käufer, der bei Kauf des Fahrzeugs Kenntnis darüber hatte, dass eine unerlaubte Manipulation durch den Hersteller vorliegen könnte, keinen Anspruch auf Entschädigung hat."
12-04-2020, 04:43 PM
#383
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https://www.myright.de/magazin/abgas...1-und-panamera
"Im Juli 2020 hat der Bundesgerichtshof in einem Fall gegen Volkswagen (VI ZR 5/20) entschieden, dass einem Käufer, der bei Kauf des Fahrzeugs Kenntnis darüber hatte, dass eine unerlaubte Manipulation durch den Hersteller vorliegen könnte, keinen Anspruch auf Entschädigung hat."
"Im Juli 2020 hat der Bundesgerichtshof in einem Fall gegen Volkswagen (VI ZR 5/20) entschieden, dass einem Käufer, der bei Kauf des Fahrzeugs Kenntnis darüber hatte, dass eine unerlaubte Manipulation durch den Hersteller vorliegen könnte, keinen Anspruch auf Entschädigung hat."
Each day we learn a bit more............
Tom in Reno
12-04-2020, 04:51 PM
#384
I also read that the vehicles used to get approvals had different engine HW, SW, and even different gear box ratios. Emissions / economy differences are as high as 8%.
I think I know why PDKs are kept sealed and are not opened for repair...
That said, any fix would probably be very significant in terms of effort to retrofit and ongoing performance.
I think I know why PDKs are kept sealed and are not opened for repair...
That said, any fix would probably be very significant in terms of effort to retrofit and ongoing performance.
12-04-2020, 05:08 PM
#385
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[QUOTE=RYE;17069854]I also read that the vehicles used to get approvals had different engine HW, SW, and even different gear box ratios. Emissions / economy differences are as high as 8%.
I think I know why PDKs are kept sealed and are not opened for repair...
That said, any fix would probably be very significant in terms of effort to retrofit and ongoing performance.[/QUOTE]
That will really blow for us PDK owners for sure. That article does extend to MY2016 so who knows what range will be included. Once more is made clear, how many of us with suspected vehicles will keep them as is or try to upgrade out of this affected range? Once the changes are initiated by Porsche, and if it does affect overall performance, the market will be flooded with under-performing cars that will be 'black listed' against future purchasers. Compensation or not, those owners are going to either have to keep the vehicle, or suffer a loss on a trade for sure. Private sales will dwindle once all of the particulars are made public and potential PCar buyers become more informed. All in all, it's not adding up to be pretty picture for us owners of the suspected group.
Here is the link to another German article on the subject....https://www.myright.de/magazin/abgas...1-und-panamera
Tom in Reno
I think I know why PDKs are kept sealed and are not opened for repair...
That said, any fix would probably be very significant in terms of effort to retrofit and ongoing performance.[/QUOTE]
That will really blow for us PDK owners for sure. That article does extend to MY2016 so who knows what range will be included. Once more is made clear, how many of us with suspected vehicles will keep them as is or try to upgrade out of this affected range? Once the changes are initiated by Porsche, and if it does affect overall performance, the market will be flooded with under-performing cars that will be 'black listed' against future purchasers. Compensation or not, those owners are going to either have to keep the vehicle, or suffer a loss on a trade for sure. Private sales will dwindle once all of the particulars are made public and potential PCar buyers become more informed. All in all, it's not adding up to be pretty picture for us owners of the suspected group.
Here is the link to another German article on the subject....https://www.myright.de/magazin/abgas...1-und-panamera
Tom in Reno
Last edited by tmarino; 12-04-2020 at 05:13 PM. Reason: more info
12-04-2020, 05:20 PM
#386
Here's the article that says that Porsche became aware of the gear ratio swap between test and production cars in 2018.
https://www.rueden.de/blog/abgasskan...puliert-haben/
https://www.rueden.de/blog/abgasskan...puliert-haben/
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Fünfer (12-23-2020)
12-04-2020, 05:23 PM
#387
And in the same article it mentions that test results are not conform in sport plus mode. I believe that is why sports chrono cars might be in the current scope of investigation.
12-04-2020, 05:58 PM
#389
Some folks in Germany are likely not having a nice Holiday. LOL
Me, i'll drive my 991.1 GTS and not worry about it.
Me, i'll drive my 991.1 GTS and not worry about it.
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Porsche911GTS'16 (12-04-2020)
12-04-2020, 06:24 PM
#390
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The Sport and Sport+ mode switches have *always* been a “cheat” device. Along with the pedal under your right foot.
As soon as any “owner-controlled method” to “cheat” emissions becomes ‘a thing’ we’re all phooked. 0-60 times will be back to “1975 standards.”
If Porsche really did swap transaxles for testing, metric tons of fecal matter will be speeding towards the impellers.
One thing to consider: unmodified VW Dieselgate cars are appreciating and useable in states that don’t GAF about the fix status.