Stop Sale Campaign on 911 with Sport Chrono?
12-13-2020, 03:36 PM
#526
Originally Posted by Viper pilot
That doesn't seem to make sense to me. If Sport+ is an emissions 'defeating' device/switch then why is it stated earlier that in Sport+ emissions are exceeded??? I'm totally confused. Guess I better spend more time driving and less time worrying about this stuff. Wait a second, it's 22 degrees and snowing outside.
12-13-2020, 03:37 PM
#527
Pro
That doesn't seem to make sense to me. If Sport+ is an emissions 'defeating' device/switch then why is it stated earlier that in Sport+ emissions are exceeded??? I'm totally confused. Guess I better spend more time driving and less time worrying about this stuff. Wait a second, it's 22 degrees and snowing outside.
Last edited by Southbranch; 12-13-2020 at 03:42 PM.
The following users liked this post:
tjg81296 (12-13-2020)
12-13-2020, 03:40 PM
#528
Rennlist Member
I tried to better understand the situation with our cars, and here is what I gathered so far, mostly from reputable German news articles:
- Early this year Porsche reported to German and US authorities that cars used to certify emissions and fuel consumption differed from production cars.
- Porsche has voluntarily disclosed this information (hoping to reduce potential fines) and are working with investigators (currently in progress) the decision making and cover up actions of using different test cars vs production cars.
- Cars in scope are Porsche Panamera 2010-2016 and Porsche 911 2009-2016.
- The disclosures detail differences in engine hardware, software, and transmission (using longer gear ratios). Certified fuel consumption values differ as much as 8% from production cars.
- There is no mention or an assumption of a defeat device or mechanism that was used in Volkswagen Diesel cars. The issue is that the cars used to certify are significantly different from what cars being sold.
- The disclosures also mention that production cars in sports plus mode exceed European and US emissions limits.
- The disclosures led law firms offering their support to customers who believe they were duped. The actual issue is different from diesel gate, but the argument and the legal process are quite similar to the Volkswagen's diesel gate.
- In the US, a California federal court approved a class action law suit against Porsche. Has nothing to do with California law - it's a federal lawsuit brought by a law firm in California.
Well said, simply put, the car will pass emissions testing as designed but exceed overall emissions limits declared and demonstrated at inception. Sport+ basically emits more exhaust as sold than it did as tested. The view appears to be that mode being available is considered to be an “emission control defeating device.”
12-13-2020, 04:07 PM
#530
Rennlist Member
So with the above said...... when can I drop off my 991.1 and pick up my new 992? 
Last edited by CSK 911 C4S; 12-13-2020 at 05:43 PM.
12-13-2020, 05:03 PM
#531
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,483
Received 1,634 Likes
on
1,065 Posts
Everyone still assumes that testing in Sport+ mode is part of the regulated test protocol.
Next, anyone that joins the class deserves to have their Porsche confiscated. Period. Full stop. Do not pass go.
Next, anyone that joins the class deserves to have their Porsche confiscated. Period. Full stop. Do not pass go.
The following 2 users liked this post by worf928:
madrambler (12-17-2020),
RDG_RCR (12-13-2020)
12-13-2020, 06:20 PM
#532
Generally agree. One clarification is necessary with the comment that the federal class action complaint had nothing to do with California law. If you read the complaint you will see that it includes several counts specifically founded on California state statutes which is common on these types of lawsuits.
12-13-2020, 06:23 PM
#533
Complaint alleges that emissions testing transmissions were different than production transmissions. I am not a “conspiracy” guy, but ammI the only one who thinks that maybe this is why Porsche says PDK’s are a “sealed” unit and will not allow anyone to crack one open or provide inexpensive distance sensor parts for replacement???
12-13-2020, 07:17 PM
#534
Pro
Complaint alleges that emissions testing transmissions were different than production transmissions. I am not a “conspiracy” guy, but ammI the only one who thinks that maybe this is why Porsche says PDK’s are a “sealed” unit and will not allow anyone to crack one open or provide inexpensive distance sensor parts for replacement???
12-13-2020, 07:34 PM
#535
True.....but the complaint alleges numerous “defeat devices” of which switched longer transmission gearing is only one. It also alleges several other defeat mechanisms including Sports Chrono mapping which was available with any vehicle regardless of transmission type. Plus, I thought the ZF seven speed manual box made for Porsche was identical to the seven speed gearbox in the PDK made by ZF also. The complaint is located at class action.org and includes both PDK and MT vehicles. I guess the point for this thread and PV 997 is that maybe one possible way to force Porsche to start making distance sensors commercially available for reasonably priced PDK transmission repair ( as opposed to a $16k tranny switch) is to wrap it up in the class action. Then Porsche has to explain it. Just a thought!
12-13-2020, 07:55 PM
#537
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by CSK 911 C4S
So with the above said...... when can I drop off my 991.1 and pick up my new 992?
The following users liked this post:
uphoto (12-13-2020)