Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
06-10-2014, 05:02 PM
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Nik. The interior shots of that Japan 964 indicate it's a minter and surely low mileage. Love the ref.
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
06-10-2014, 06:15 PM
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An interesting choice. Similar I imagine to many models where solid prices are being received overseas. If signature parts are missing, then collectors will pay less but it's questionable whether they will pay less than the cost to fix the omission, especially as the lower the base cost when exporting the lower the eventual duty. That said it doesn't sound like it's being sold.
Mung23 , good luck with the C4. There is a lot
of knowledge in this board. Ask away.
Mung23 , good luck with the C4. There is a lot
of knowledge in this board. Ask away.
06-10-2014, 06:18 PM
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If anyone's interested in a copy of Jorge Segers "Analysis Techniques for Racecar Data Acquisition", I've ended up with two copies, so let me know if you'd like to purchase a lightly used copy. $110 US new, make an offer and it's yours.
06-10-2014, 06:29 PM
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John. Problem is NZ market. Yo can buy a nice 964 3.6T for 120K here or a scrappy RS which needs 50+K on it. Most monied kiwi buyers will buy the 3.6T only the collectors here interested in the RS and most of those sitting tight on what they already have (and wouldnt pay silly money to acquire anything).
Matt. Is the book any good/useful?
Matt. Is the book any good/useful?
06-10-2014, 06:31 PM
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Cheers, I would really like to do it, but decided it wasn't worth risking more gearbox wear before I have the synchro refreshed.
Yep, just mean that we need to compare like-for-like, i.e. tyres make a big difference so really need to know what was used with a quoted time.
Possibly, or the slick for "everyone else" -- the GT3 Cup regs supplement specifically list the Michelin slicks that the Cups were designed/intended to use. I haven't read the regs in detail since I don't have a horse in the race yet.
Agreed Matt, but I think RSG times we quote tend to be 'best ever' possible within our cars (with everything aligned in our favor)
I see no reason why we shouldn't to do the same with race cars as we are not running in a controlled series. Given you can race whatever you like with whatever tyres you like in the Porsche Series, Arrow's etc, we can probably quote the same too, as there are no limits for any of us other than speed bars??
I see no reason why we shouldn't to do the same with race cars as we are not running in a controlled series. Given you can race whatever you like with whatever tyres you like in the Porsche Series, Arrow's etc, we can probably quote the same too, as there are no limits for any of us other than speed bars??
Possibly, or the slick for "everyone else" -- the GT3 Cup regs supplement specifically list the Michelin slicks that the Cups were designed/intended to use. I haven't read the regs in detail since I don't have a horse in the race yet.
06-10-2014, 06:40 PM
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It's pretty well thought of, seems to be the go-to book if you can't get the out-of-print "Data Power" from 1993 or want something that's up to date. I ended up with two copies because I bought the 2nd edition for the new iRacing (sim racing) coverage.
I've got a stack of books now; this one, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines", "Competition Car Data Logging", "The Competition Car Data Logging Manual", "A Practical Guide to Race Car Data Analysis" and "Data Power" on the way. I've only spent a bit of time in each, but this book and "Making Sense..." both seem very good.
Fey's blog also has some good reading on race car topics: http://buddyfey.blogspot.com/
I've got a stack of books now; this one, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines", "Competition Car Data Logging", "The Competition Car Data Logging Manual", "A Practical Guide to Race Car Data Analysis" and "Data Power" on the way. I've only spent a bit of time in each, but this book and "Making Sense..." both seem very good.
Fey's blog also has some good reading on race car topics: http://buddyfey.blogspot.com/
06-10-2014, 07:37 PM
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Nik. The interior shots of that Japan 964 indicate it's a minter and surely low mileage. Love the ref.
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Porsc...item19ee2a4791
06-10-2014, 07:49 PM
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Nik. The interior shots of that Japan 964 indicate it's a minter and surely low mileage. Love the ref.
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
Ming . RS prices are very susceptible to provenience and condition. In the UK a very good car will fetch top dollar. In New Zealand you'd be lock to pull 120 for a scrappy example. Getting a car with little history and rough mechanicals and missing original factory parts and trim up to scratch is expensive. If the RS you are working on does not have its original wheels they will cost you 10k for a good set but you could spend years trying to find some. They must have the magnesium wheels to command fair money. Sam incidentally has a set if he hadn't sold them yet to a European specialist. Real bucket seats for RS also super pricey and many RS parts no longer available do advice would be to spend the money now to make it mint and build this history file with original invoices etc. May cost 50+k to get it original and mechanically perfect now possibly more but cheaper to do it now than in 10 years time....
06-10-2014, 08:08 PM
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Thanks Matt. I think Ill pass. I dont think my frequency at this stage will enable me to benefit yet from studying my intermetrics much. I still have plenty of basic stuff to learn to make up time before dissection of telemetry traces I suspect. My first challenge is to drive the same NZ circuit twice!
Nik. Those seats are ridiculously priced. I know of cheaper sets but you are still talking 8-9K NZD landed. You can have a new Recaro Pole Position set fully upholstered in factory leather and shipped with recaro sliders and side mounts for around 6K landed via SouthBound in UK (the best in the business IMO) as per their recent quote to me.
Most Asian 964RS were comfort spec. They had air con, electric windows, stronger battery, radio and comfort seats. My Sing 993RS was indeed specced this way as was the yellow 993RS from HK according to the factory build sheet (the buckets must have been added by the first owner for the track).
The white 964RS in question is also almost certainly specced this way which means its original seats would have been bolstered comfort seats (aka 3.3/3.6 turbo).
Remember 18 months ago Whittaker couldnt shift the very low KM NZ new Red 964RS for $145K NZD. No one was interested no even Higgs and the boys. Today that car would sell for $170K without question even in NZ. The only thing that has changed is the hype syurrouning these cars in teh last 12 months.
If you read Pistoheads there are two owners on there recently made "record sales" of 964RS and 993RS. I think one mint low km nicely specced UK 964RS made over 200k GBP. The 993RS was similar money. I know one of the owners (yellow RHD UK CS 993RS), car was at Maltons but the deal fell over a few days after publicised when the buyer found a much cheaper car ex Japan or somewhere and its awaiting a buyer again. As the owner said, plenty talking up the prices but when it comes to real folding its not quite what you have been told....
Nik. Those seats are ridiculously priced. I know of cheaper sets but you are still talking 8-9K NZD landed. You can have a new Recaro Pole Position set fully upholstered in factory leather and shipped with recaro sliders and side mounts for around 6K landed via SouthBound in UK (the best in the business IMO) as per their recent quote to me.
Most Asian 964RS were comfort spec. They had air con, electric windows, stronger battery, radio and comfort seats. My Sing 993RS was indeed specced this way as was the yellow 993RS from HK according to the factory build sheet (the buckets must have been added by the first owner for the track).
The white 964RS in question is also almost certainly specced this way which means its original seats would have been bolstered comfort seats (aka 3.3/3.6 turbo).
Remember 18 months ago Whittaker couldnt shift the very low KM NZ new Red 964RS for $145K NZD. No one was interested no even Higgs and the boys. Today that car would sell for $170K without question even in NZ. The only thing that has changed is the hype syurrouning these cars in teh last 12 months.
If you read Pistoheads there are two owners on there recently made "record sales" of 964RS and 993RS. I think one mint low km nicely specced UK 964RS made over 200k GBP. The 993RS was similar money. I know one of the owners (yellow RHD UK CS 993RS), car was at Maltons but the deal fell over a few days after publicised when the buyer found a much cheaper car ex Japan or somewhere and its awaiting a buyer again. As the owner said, plenty talking up the prices but when it comes to real folding its not quite what you have been told....
06-10-2014, 08:11 PM
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Shame, I can't make the sprints, Just got back from the U.S and it's my sons 1st Birthday on Sun. Would be fun to catch up with everyone. Will have to wait till next time.
Whens the next track day? Road car or race car, depending on whether my gearbox is rebuilt.
The race cars freshen up after targa is, 2 rear hubs, 2 rear wheel bearings, new syncros, new third gears, new second gears, new rear axles and new main bearing.
Whens the next track day? Road car or race car, depending on whether my gearbox is rebuilt.
The race cars freshen up after targa is, 2 rear hubs, 2 rear wheel bearings, new syncros, new third gears, new second gears, new rear axles and new main bearing.
06-10-2014, 08:14 PM
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mung23. If the RS in your garage isnt wearing the correct factory Magnesium lightweight Cup wheels (denoted by "SM" Magenesium on the facing rim) then you need to get ahold of your man in the UK and get him to purchase Sams genuine wheels ASAP! He will not find a pare to compare in Europe (Sams are very original on original paint I have inspected them and owned a set I refurbished years ago so I know exactly what Im talking about here). If you buy them via Schmidt or a specialist in Germany/.Europe you will be looking at 6-7K Euro. My advice is is you dont have the original wheels for that car snap them up now or the opportunity will be lost., The wheels EILL have an impact on teh future value of this model car expecially as its already comfort spec ex Asia - you need all the provenence you can get.
As a sidebar. My 993RS "compfort spec" weight 315kg on teh scales tank full. The factory quotes 1270kg but when you add in electric windows, comfort seats, radio and air con and normal battery you add back almost 50kg. A factory C2 without options was 1370kg (although most are more with air con and electric sunroof).
As a sidebar. My 993RS "compfort spec" weight 315kg on teh scales tank full. The factory quotes 1270kg but when you add in electric windows, comfort seats, radio and air con and normal battery you add back almost 50kg. A factory C2 without options was 1370kg (although most are more with air con and electric sunroof).
06-10-2014, 08:20 PM
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Shame, I can't make the sprints, Just got back from the U.S and it's my sons 1st Birthday on Sun. Would be fun to catch up with everyone. Will have to wait till next time.
Whens the next track day? Road car or race car, depending on whether my gearbox is rebuilt.
The race cars freshen up after targa is, 2 rear hubs, 2 rear wheel bearings, new syncros, new third gears, new second gears, new rear axles and new main bearing.
Whens the next track day? Road car or race car, depending on whether my gearbox is rebuilt.
The race cars freshen up after targa is, 2 rear hubs, 2 rear wheel bearings, new syncros, new third gears, new second gears, new rear axles and new main bearing.
I have just replaced both rear axles (complete), both rear wheel bearings, synchro 2/3 plus slider and extra parts and new reverse lock out spring as well as LSD internals and a whole list of other stuff. Luckily it looks like we have got away with the gear sets as these are pricey. Im already up for 73 hours labour and there is plenty to be done before its all back in the car!!!!!! Infact the total cost including the Big Red brake upgrade, endless pads, new air con evaporator and the spherical jointed complete rear suspension set (which I wouldn't have bought nor the brakes if I knew in hindsight what the box and LSD were costing to sort out) is the price of a 964 Tipo! Infact the cost had blown my budget on this car for 2014 by such a magnitude I have no option but to abandon the SI Targa Tour this year which is a real shame. Ill definitely be doing the NO Targa with you guys next May tho - for certain!
06-10-2014, 08:20 PM
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If we get our weigh in on Saturday, it will be
Interesting to see what the C2 vs C4 weight difference is as per the sprints set up.
Interesting to see what the C2 vs C4 weight difference is as per the sprints set up.
06-10-2014, 08:46 PM
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Sorry Nik. Cannot help. As you know my expertise is more on the 993RS side.
I can tell you that the yellow 964RS imported from HK by Jon Pottinger was raced heavily and rebuilt after an accident on the track during the mid/late 1990s. It is a colour change car and has/had many non original parts. I think the term used by on of Jons mechanics known to me at the time in WTGN and father of a fabled Rasso employee was "rolled, bowled and A$$holed"! Looked lovely but was a bit of a basket case. John Garty bought it and spend a fortune trying to get it right. Not sure where it is now but not the best providence.
Of that 4 out of 5 raced/repaired. Not dure about the other Red one. Have never seen it. Only know the Whittaker one (fairly well have small seat time) and the ext Giltrap white.
I can tell you that the yellow 964RS imported from HK by Jon Pottinger was raced heavily and rebuilt after an accident on the track during the mid/late 1990s. It is a colour change car and has/had many non original parts. I think the term used by on of Jons mechanics known to me at the time in WTGN and father of a fabled Rasso employee was "rolled, bowled and A$$holed"! Looked lovely but was a bit of a basket case. John Garty bought it and spend a fortune trying to get it right. Not sure where it is now but not the best providence.
Of that 4 out of 5 raced/repaired. Not dure about the other Red one. Have never seen it. Only know the Whittaker one (fairly well have small seat time) and the ext Giltrap white.