Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
11-21-2013, 03:40 PM
#6256
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11-21-2013, 10:53 PM
#6257
Sounds great guys. I know I'll be ready for a drink by then.
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
11-22-2013, 12:46 AM
#6259
Been busy lately and just caught up on Rennlist so picking up on some posts a little while back. Wondering what people's experiences have been with Targa.
I'm keen to get involved in the epic SI Targa next year (been into the Targa office in Papakura 2 or 3 times these last few years scouting it out with Peter there already). I thought about doing the tour first but hate the idea of buttoning off at 150 when spending more than a round-the-world ticket on driving 600ks or so of closed roads (wouldn't be as bad if it were mph but many of us would hit more than 150kph on just the shorter straight before Hampton's sweeper).
I figure the wear on the car won't be that much more running the Targa than running the Tour but I'm not keen to convert the yellow terror permanently to a Targa spec.
I know there would be more to it than the below but I'm hoping to check out some biggies first:
Would anyone have a factory or FIA approved bolt-in 996 rollcage that would pass muster and be removeable after (loan/hire/sale)?
Also, any idea on competition insurance and/or the practicalities of sharing/organising a support team?
Are there any (perhaps even 996T/997T) drivers here who would consider splitting the drive (+costs and risks)?
Cheers - Walter
I'm keen to get involved in the epic SI Targa next year (been into the Targa office in Papakura 2 or 3 times these last few years scouting it out with Peter there already). I thought about doing the tour first but hate the idea of buttoning off at 150 when spending more than a round-the-world ticket on driving 600ks or so of closed roads (wouldn't be as bad if it were mph but many of us would hit more than 150kph on just the shorter straight before Hampton's sweeper).
I figure the wear on the car won't be that much more running the Targa than running the Tour but I'm not keen to convert the yellow terror permanently to a Targa spec.
I know there would be more to it than the below but I'm hoping to check out some biggies first:
Would anyone have a factory or FIA approved bolt-in 996 rollcage that would pass muster and be removeable after (loan/hire/sale)?
Also, any idea on competition insurance and/or the practicalities of sharing/organising a support team?
Are there any (perhaps even 996T/997T) drivers here who would consider splitting the drive (+costs and risks)?
Cheers - Walter
11-22-2013, 01:56 AM
#6260
Rennlist Member
Hi Walter.
Graeme is a seasoned veteran on Targa and can answer your questions with much greater insight on the competition side of things than I.
The 150 Km speed limit was not strictly enforced in 2012 Targa Tour. Some years it has been enforced and some years it hasn't, dependent on the power that be and also the behavior of the participants. Subsequently in 2012 we frequently hit speeds of above 200 (we chose to not exceed this limit on grounds of safety and my lovely wife enforced it with impunity!).
In 2012 the quickest cars in the Tour were running the course at approximately 75-80% the speed/times of the competition leaders. The Tour leader sets the pace and does this according to their perceived observation of the skills and decorum of the lead group of participants.
The wear on the cars in the competition is significantly greater than the Tour cars I should think as that final 25% speed differential has a 100+% increase on mechanical duress of key components. For a tour car a fresh set of tyres, pads and fluids with a big service giving special attention to teh fact you are entering the event will probably suffice. Competition participants in 2014 6 day 20th will probably be sanctioned three sets of tyres and will invariably run a second set of pads and a full fluid change during the event.
A factory or FIA sanctioned cage will not meet MSNZ rules and you will need a full cage which is certified. I have a 3MB document I will send you from the MSNZ Competition Book you can review.
For the full competition you will need safety equipment (helmet, hans, FE, fire suit which complies MSNZ). You will also need a full competition license rather than a clubsport.
Prestigio insurance will not be possible for full competition but insurance is available. Sean can chip in here but its not a cheap proposition running around 3K for the event. Im not even sure its available for the competition. To be quite honest with a vehicle worth around 60-70K like your own I suggest self insurance would be the most likely outcome. I dont know any competition competitors that are covered during the event most understanding the risks involved.
You will require a seasoned navigator as crucial to your safety under competition pace during the event IMO.
In terms of budget I have estimated around 12-13K NZD for teh Targa Tour next year due to SI logistics, duration and preparation (inc entry fees probably around 4K for non competition and accommodation, fuel and food). This could easily run to 14K for some who dont already have Monit, Trackit GPS, FE etc installed.
My guess, and Graeme can comment, is you will need double that money for competition Targa in 2014.
You will definitely need a support team (or sharing thereof) in 2014 due to this event taking place in SI far away from easily getting outside help or parts quickly. Given the metrics of trabnsport for spares/mechanic, accommodation and other additional head costs you can see how this can easily bump up teh cost for competition in SI. Also remember the full competition fee in 2014 will be around 7K per car entry.
If you have never drive Targa before let alone Targa Tour I should say 2014 20th anniversary 7 day extended format is one brave undertaking. Hats off to you though, people said same when I entered with my wife for 5 day tour (old format was day longer in 2012 and quite an eduro). Im glad we did it. It was an absolutely draining event (in bed asleep by 9 and up again at 5am) but wel worth it.
If you are a competent fast road driver and have had some experience with spirited B road drives, tarmac events or just have big Kahunas its definitely a thrill and the full competition vent even more so.
The only advice I picked up on my tour was from the old timers who told me if your a proficient track driver it will probably not benefit you as much as you would think on the tour. Every corner is "blind" and every crest is a new experience so you need wits and reactions and know how to set up your car and control it in a variety of conditions (both road and weather). Of course the Tour is much more relaxed in the sense that you can take it your own pace and start in the back group and move up towards the front as you feel more confident. We did this (actually found the middle of the middle group was faster than the back quarter of the front group as is often the case!).
Hope that helps.
Graeme is a seasoned veteran on Targa and can answer your questions with much greater insight on the competition side of things than I.
The 150 Km speed limit was not strictly enforced in 2012 Targa Tour. Some years it has been enforced and some years it hasn't, dependent on the power that be and also the behavior of the participants. Subsequently in 2012 we frequently hit speeds of above 200 (we chose to not exceed this limit on grounds of safety and my lovely wife enforced it with impunity!).
In 2012 the quickest cars in the Tour were running the course at approximately 75-80% the speed/times of the competition leaders. The Tour leader sets the pace and does this according to their perceived observation of the skills and decorum of the lead group of participants.
The wear on the cars in the competition is significantly greater than the Tour cars I should think as that final 25% speed differential has a 100+% increase on mechanical duress of key components. For a tour car a fresh set of tyres, pads and fluids with a big service giving special attention to teh fact you are entering the event will probably suffice. Competition participants in 2014 6 day 20th will probably be sanctioned three sets of tyres and will invariably run a second set of pads and a full fluid change during the event.
A factory or FIA sanctioned cage will not meet MSNZ rules and you will need a full cage which is certified. I have a 3MB document I will send you from the MSNZ Competition Book you can review.
For the full competition you will need safety equipment (helmet, hans, FE, fire suit which complies MSNZ). You will also need a full competition license rather than a clubsport.
Prestigio insurance will not be possible for full competition but insurance is available. Sean can chip in here but its not a cheap proposition running around 3K for the event. Im not even sure its available for the competition. To be quite honest with a vehicle worth around 60-70K like your own I suggest self insurance would be the most likely outcome. I dont know any competition competitors that are covered during the event most understanding the risks involved.
You will require a seasoned navigator as crucial to your safety under competition pace during the event IMO.
In terms of budget I have estimated around 12-13K NZD for teh Targa Tour next year due to SI logistics, duration and preparation (inc entry fees probably around 4K for non competition and accommodation, fuel and food). This could easily run to 14K for some who dont already have Monit, Trackit GPS, FE etc installed.
My guess, and Graeme can comment, is you will need double that money for competition Targa in 2014.
You will definitely need a support team (or sharing thereof) in 2014 due to this event taking place in SI far away from easily getting outside help or parts quickly. Given the metrics of trabnsport for spares/mechanic, accommodation and other additional head costs you can see how this can easily bump up teh cost for competition in SI. Also remember the full competition fee in 2014 will be around 7K per car entry.
If you have never drive Targa before let alone Targa Tour I should say 2014 20th anniversary 7 day extended format is one brave undertaking. Hats off to you though, people said same when I entered with my wife for 5 day tour (old format was day longer in 2012 and quite an eduro). Im glad we did it. It was an absolutely draining event (in bed asleep by 9 and up again at 5am) but wel worth it.
If you are a competent fast road driver and have had some experience with spirited B road drives, tarmac events or just have big Kahunas its definitely a thrill and the full competition vent even more so.
The only advice I picked up on my tour was from the old timers who told me if your a proficient track driver it will probably not benefit you as much as you would think on the tour. Every corner is "blind" and every crest is a new experience so you need wits and reactions and know how to set up your car and control it in a variety of conditions (both road and weather). Of course the Tour is much more relaxed in the sense that you can take it your own pace and start in the back group and move up towards the front as you feel more confident. We did this (actually found the middle of the middle group was faster than the back quarter of the front group as is often the case!).
Hope that helps.
11-22-2013, 02:05 AM
#6261
Rennlist Member
P.S. Just one more thing. Although maximum speed may be 150 enforced on this years tour many of the roads chosen are very tight and twisty with plenty of 25, 35, 45 & 50 km marked corners with straights capable of holding 200kmph few and far between so although its nice not having the slap on the hand after the stage if you exceed the 150 you will find that 80% of the time you will be holding on hard enough doing 120 around a 50k rated corner...
11-22-2013, 03:10 AM
#6262
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Weather forecast sunny for the weekend. Sunday at Hampton Downs looking good. Excitement building. I'll take it really easy and work on my lines this time. Yeah right.
11-22-2013, 03:21 AM
#6263
Rennlist Member
Sounds great guys. I know I'll be ready for a drink by then.
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
11-22-2013, 03:34 AM
#6264
Rennlist Member
Just put my AIM software onto a new laptop. I'll take it to the track and will be comparing each session on the AIM against the base lap set by Steve in my car. Taking it to a new level of analysis. 3.4 seconds to find. Goal is to find at least 1/2 a Dave and go under 1.22.
11-22-2013, 03:43 AM
#6265
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Sounds great guys. I know I'll be ready for a drink by then.
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
With luck I'll have the 964 on the road in time for a January event. Also interested in any driver training recommendations as it's been almost a 15 since I've done anything on a track & that was with a Corrado!
I snapped a few pics of the container loading up and the attached pic reminded me of a great site for passing rare free time: http://thingsorganizedneatly.tumblr.com/ I suspect it will appeal to several here.
Oh yeah - everything fit in the steel box.
C
Re driver training there's a few options. Occasionally we hire an instructor for regular RSG sessions and split the cost between the number of people sharing. Reality though to get value out of it its best to have an instructor to yourself or between 2 max. Budget NZ$500+ for track day if going alone. Probably 5-6 good 15min sessions.
Better find that man a suitable banner. I have the "yellow sticker" waiting for its next recipient...
11-22-2013, 03:50 AM
#6267
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Hey guys. Sorry I've been quiet, so bloody busy and only time I seem to get is on the plane.
Great to see the group/ gruppe going well and still solid turn outs. It was a year ago that this all kicked off, wish I was still there some days.
Targa- do it! As you probably know I had a run in with some unmarked roadworks that decommissioned the 964 3 days before the event. Gutted, but I took Steve's 73RS. Even with torsion bars and a 40 year old car we were mixing it.
In some ways the tour is even harder on cars than the main event, unless you have a service crew. The competitors were checking the car over 3+ times a day and changing gearbox oil, brake fluid, tires during the course of the event. By the last day the Tour cars, even the modern ones, were running out of brakes and down to canvas on tires.
If you are going to do it make sure you set the car up properly, what you're running at HD won't suit the bumpy, off camber roads.
I got the bug though and will be competing next year. 2 things on the wish list, an Enduro race and the Targa.
I agree with Macca, for 6 days in the SI best to budget $15k, I don't see how even the tour could do it on one set of tires and the roads down there are rougher chip. I'm planning on $30k for competing to be safe. Search is currently on for a car, existing one is too nice for the pounding of competing.
I hope the Endless pads are going well. I'm not looking back after the switch from Pagid (no affiliation).
Great to see the group/ gruppe going well and still solid turn outs. It was a year ago that this all kicked off, wish I was still there some days.
Targa- do it! As you probably know I had a run in with some unmarked roadworks that decommissioned the 964 3 days before the event. Gutted, but I took Steve's 73RS. Even with torsion bars and a 40 year old car we were mixing it.
In some ways the tour is even harder on cars than the main event, unless you have a service crew. The competitors were checking the car over 3+ times a day and changing gearbox oil, brake fluid, tires during the course of the event. By the last day the Tour cars, even the modern ones, were running out of brakes and down to canvas on tires.
If you are going to do it make sure you set the car up properly, what you're running at HD won't suit the bumpy, off camber roads.
I got the bug though and will be competing next year. 2 things on the wish list, an Enduro race and the Targa.
I agree with Macca, for 6 days in the SI best to budget $15k, I don't see how even the tour could do it on one set of tires and the roads down there are rougher chip. I'm planning on $30k for competing to be safe. Search is currently on for a car, existing one is too nice for the pounding of competing.
I hope the Endless pads are going well. I'm not looking back after the switch from Pagid (no affiliation).
11-22-2013, 03:51 AM
#6268
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Thank goodness that long range forecast was completely wrong. I think there will 5 RSG members there.
Just put my AIM software onto a new laptop. I'll take it to the track and will be comparing each session on the AIM against the base lap set by Steve in my car. Taking it to a new level of analysis. 3.4 seconds to find. Goal is to find at least 1/2 a Dave and go under 1.22.
Just put my AIM software onto a new laptop. I'll take it to the track and will be comparing each session on the AIM against the base lap set by Steve in my car. Taking it to a new level of analysis. 3.4 seconds to find. Goal is to find at least 1/2 a Dave and go under 1.22.
I'll bring my laptop out as well so we can compare notes.
Really looking forward to this one - summer's here!
11-22-2013, 04:44 AM
#6269
Rennlist Member
Giving in and following Simon's advice i.e. memorising braking and turn in points plus braking pedal duration. I'll also have two seats so Yoda can sit in the car if it comes to that. The only limitation on the day may be the amount of traffic.
11-22-2013, 04:46 AM
#6270
Rennlist Member
Good stuff - I'm just playing with the AIM software as well. Chris very kindly left his AIM full of data in my car today down at Contis so I'm trying to plot his 1.17 lap against the graph measures you're using. Fair to say I'm struggling and can't yet work out how to set the graph measures the way you have them.
I'll bring my laptop out as well so we can compare notes.
Really looking forward to this one - summer's here!
I'll bring my laptop out as well so we can compare notes.
Really looking forward to this one - summer's here!