Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
03-03-2014, 05:27 PM
03-03-2014, 05:45 PM
He's probably got a better idea as he's been running R-comps a while and I'm only picking mine up today.
03-03-2014, 05:57 PM
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Chris can update you but if you read back I believe we thought that it is best to drop your pressures progressively rather than in a single hit (ie drop them about 5 or 6 PSI to roughly 32/38 or so before your first 3-5 lap session, then once they've half heated up drop the pressures back down again to something like that for the second session and just fine tune as needed after that. He's probably got a better idea as he's been running R-comps a while and I'm only picking mine up today.
03-03-2014, 06:43 PM
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Yes, that's what I would start with, but be aware they will go up fast. On the Targa Tour in the weekend I started at 32 and 36 and by the end of the first stage they went up 9 pounds all round. The challenge here is that when you adjust them back to something like 32 and 38 you end up with very low pressures when they cool down, so ideally you get to a service station on the way home when they are cooling down and add a bit of air back in.
03-03-2014, 07:07 PM
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Chris. On a full Targa Tour tire temps are almost impossible to manage. A typical Targa NZ schedule will see you complete 6 stages in a single day, ranging from 10km to 40km in length and followed by anything up to 80km touring in between (no chance to stop and top up your pressures, typically at the end of the stage you just flow on to the next stage starting point). Because of this format you simply will have to live with a set of tyre pressures that best suit your driving style and drive around the issue as they heat up. If you are experiencing excessive deviations (i.e. 9 psi) you could opt to use No2 to fill the tyres (evacuate all o2 first). Problem is as soon as you top up with standard air you will start contaminating the mix and reduce the No2 effectiveness. Ron & Patsy use No2 for the GTR for Targa NZ but I shouldnt think it drops the residual temp variances by more than 2-3 psi in a decent length stage. My approach (like almost all the participants) was to use a fast street tyre (RE11 but now Michelin Pilot Super Sport) and run these around 28 psi cold front and 30 psi rear. The side wall construction is much better than R comps (stiffer with more belts for support on the shoulders) and once on the move (between stages etc) they will be operating close to 32/34. By the end of a long stage on the few occassions I had a chance to check them (in between Gentle Annies 1 7 2 for example) these were sitting at 33/34 & 36/38. Im sure they were higher than that towards the end of the stage however as it was 5 minutes before I tested them. Granted a little higher than I would have liked but a good balance for overall tyre preservation and longevity. On the longer stages (20km+) you will feel them get a little greasy but quite honestly there are so many other factors taking place you just register the fact and build them into your turn in angles and throttle adjustments. The brain is a super computer. The Targa Tour is not a race, you will always been confined by the speed of the car in front and ultimately by the speed of the lead car - last few years a Hemi 500 Chrysler sedan stock on loan from CCS! Granted the drivers of that 500 bhp auto box monster are ex race drivers but reality is that thing can only go so fast (although surprisingly so when hustled)! R compounds come with their own set of compromises for Targa Tour including the need to handle varying conditions (from torrential rain to baking heat) to longevity (the few that had them were new at beginning of 5 day event and corded or already replaced by end), and the possibility of tyre wall/carcass damage (a few examples of this as well). The ideal tyre for the NI Targa tour IMO is the Super Sport if what I hear is true (will know for sure after SITT). You have a car loaded with 3 days gear, full tank of gas and two heavy lads on board with so many variables changing including unknown roads the difference between R compund and fast road tyre here is negligible and with entry fees so high you want to aim to finish rather than eek out a few seconds more a stage which will ultimately be limited in any case by the speed of the car in front of you....just some thoughts on this....
03-03-2014, 07:22 PM
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Chris. On a full Targa Tour tire temps are almost impossible to manage. A typical Targa NZ schedule will see you complete 6 stages in a single day, ranging from 10km to 40km in length and followed by anything up to 80km touring in between (no chance to stop and top up your pressures, typically at the end of the stage you just flow on to the next stage starting point). Because of this format you simply will have to live with a set of tyre pressures that best suit your driving style and drive around the issue as they heat up. If you are experiencing excessive deviations (i.e. 9 psi) you could opt to use No2 to fill the tyres (evacuate all o2 first). Problem is as soon as you top up with standard air you will start contaminating the mix and reduce the No2 effectiveness. Ron & Patsy use No2 for the GTR for Targa NZ but I shouldnt think it drops the residual temp variances by more than 2-3 psi in a decent length stage. My approach (like almost all the participants) was to use a fast street tyre (RE11 but now Michelin Pilot Super Sport) and run these around 28 psi cold front and 30 psi rear. The side wall construction is much better than R comps (stiffer with more belts for support on the shoulders) and once on the move (between stages etc) they will be operating close to 32/34. By the end of a long stage on the few occassions I had a chance to check them (in between Gentle Annies 1 7 2 for example) these were sitting at 33/34 & 36/38. Im sure they were higher than that towards the end of the stage however as it was 5 minutes before I tested them. Granted a little higher than I would have liked but a good balance for overall tyre preservation and longevity. On the longer stages (20km+) you will feel them get a little greasy but quite honestly there are so many other factors taking place you just register the fact and build them into your turn in angles and throttle adjustments. The brain is a super computer. The Targa Tour is not a race, you will always been confined by the speed of the car in front and ultimately by the speed of the lead car - last few years a Hemi 500 Chrysler sedan stock on loan from CCS! Granted the drivers of that 500 bhp auto box monster are ex race drivers but reality is that thing can only go so fast (although surprisingly so when hustled)! R compounds come with their own set of compromises for Targa Tour including the need to handle varying conditions (from torrential rain to baking heat) to longevity (the few that had them were new at beginning of 5 day event and corded or already replaced by end), and the possibility of tyre wall/carcass damage (a few examples of this as well). The ideal tyre for the NI Targa tour IMO is the Super Sport if what I hear is true (will know for sure after SITT). You have a car loaded with 3 days gear, full tank of gas and two heavy lads on board with so many variables changing including unknown roads the difference between R compund and fast road tyre here is negligible and with entry fees so high you want to aim to finish rather than eek out a few seconds more a stage which will ultimately be limited in any case by the speed of the car in front of you....just some thoughts on this....
03-03-2014, 07:23 PM
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Banners have arrived. I've posted on Rennsport Gruppe.
03-03-2014, 07:26 PM
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Macca, I completely agree. With the tyres running at high pressure on Sunday it was the least of my worries, the gravel and rocks on the road were a lot more unsettling than the tyre pressure. It was also easy on Sunday as it was a one day event with no rain forecasted, so r comps were safe. Given the likelihood of rain in May and September I am thinking fast road tyre as well. If only they made the Super Sports in a size bigger than 285/35 for an 18 inch wheel, I need 295/30....
03-03-2014, 07:30 PM
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Further to the above and just as a point of interest I chose 235/275 combo Super Sports for the 993 (these run almost identical wheel diameters incidentally too - closer even than the factory recommended sizes!). Factory sizes were 225/265 (some feel the rear was a tad under tyred) and 225/285 (some felt the rear was slightly over tyred). The only consensus for the older 911s liek the 964/993 was the more width you could get at the front the better to combat understeer...
03-03-2014, 07:31 PM
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Chris. Good point on the Super Sport sizing. Its becoming plainly obvious that newly designed tyres are being produced in increasingly limited sizes for 17 & 18" wheels with the bulk of fitment choice now squarely aimed at 19" & 20" users (driven of course by the car manufacturers and fashion)!
03-03-2014, 07:36 PM
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John, that's great, thanks.
The quality of these banners is excellent. I still have my original banner on. On Sunday we completely stuck the Targa Tour banner over the top of it and then peeled it off at the end of the day. I used FW1 cleaning wax to get some glue off the RSG banner that had been left by the Targa banner and none of this left any marks on the RSG banner, it still looks like new. Awesome.
The quality of these banners is excellent. I still have my original banner on. On Sunday we completely stuck the Targa Tour banner over the top of it and then peeled it off at the end of the day. I used FW1 cleaning wax to get some glue off the RSG banner that had been left by the Targa banner and none of this left any marks on the RSG banner, it still looks like new. Awesome.
03-03-2014, 08:00 PM
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John, that's great, thanks. The quality of these banners is excellent. I still have my original banner on. On Sunday we completely stuck the Targa Tour banner over the top of it and then peeled it off at the end of the day. I used FW1 cleaning wax to get some glue off the RSG banner that had been left by the Targa banner and none of this left any marks on the RSG banner, it still looks like new. Awesome.
03-03-2014, 08:03 PM
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No plans to use them at this stage, just spares. If you are short of any I'm happy to pass one on to someone else. I also still have a red on white somewhere at home from the original order.
03-03-2014, 08:04 PM
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Further to the above and just as a point of interest I chose 235/275 combo Super Sports for the 993 (these run almost identical wheel diameters incidentally too - closer even than the factory recommended sizes!). Factory sizes were 225/265 (some feel the rear was a tad under tyred) and 225/285 (some felt the rear was slightly over tyred). The only consensus for the older 911s liek the 964/993 was the more width you could get at the front the better to combat understeer...
