Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
01-03-2014, 01:56 AM
#7666
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I already have RUF HD Bilsteins and RUF ARBs at both ends. Aside from the stance being a bit high it's never felt like a weak point and we know the car is capable of 1.19.57 as is so no immediate need to change. Looking at new pads though as my rears are close to replacement. May look at the MX72.
01-03-2014, 02:03 AM
#7667
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I already have RUF HD Bilsteins and RUF ARBs at both ends. Aside from the stance being a bit high it's never felt like a weak point and we know the car is capable of 1.19.57 as is so no immediate need to change. Looking at new pads though as my rears are close to replacement. May look at the MX72.
01-03-2014, 02:04 AM
#7668
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Consulting PM's don't make that sort of money. Something like this only comes from the proceeds of a 'spec-build' sale and I don't have one of those on the go at the mo.................
I think Jen is going to put me on a budget this year..............
Last edited by kiwi 911; 01-03-2014 at 05:33 AM.
01-03-2014, 02:08 AM
#7669
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Peter, can you summarise your 964 Suspension build again, I really liked the way your car handled, very easy to peddle at the limit compared to my C3.........
01-03-2014, 02:26 AM
#7670
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The springs were progressive and I was surprised at how good a compromise they were for road and track. I was only running -1.5deg camber as well.
To improve it I would probably have changed out the springs for something a bit harder and maxed out the camber - but at that point it would have been too compromised for the road - hence why getting off that train before the spend got too disastrous!
01-03-2014, 02:38 AM
#7671
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Porsche on front, whatever was on the car, on the rear. So I can swap fronts to back, but just realised my potential source of mX72 will have a mix. Not sure they want to end up with just a set of rears.
01-03-2014, 02:40 AM
#7672
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Hi Paul. Thats not a part Im replacing. Southbound have agreed to do a customized rear RS parcel shelf carpet (they have the factory classic grey carpet still in stock - sent me a sample and its 100% and I dont know for how many years they will continue to have stock). Im still thinking it over. I wanted the "anniversary" script I created embroidered on it in black or silver thread (where the "Carrera RS" is usually put) and speaker holes. Theyve agreed to do it but its pricey so still mulling it over. They have the roiginal beading too. They can definitely do your price. Email David at Southbound. southboundmotor@btconnect.com .Your front drivers well undermatt should have a factory code (for classic grey 4XR). Just check that....
01-03-2014, 02:50 AM
#7673
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01-03-2014, 02:55 AM
#7674
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Paul. 9M 993 builds are legend. Ive spoken to Colin many times and also informally "interviewed" 4 or 5 of his 9M 993 Stage 1+2+3 customers and there are a few things that you need to know (eyes wide open etc). I did contemplate a 9M upgrade but Colin really needs the car to guarantee the outcome (many have not replicated this away from his shop, the timing and tuning is critical). He doesnt have an engine dyno so its a case of shipping the 993 to the UK. I am planning to do this in 2018 for Euro vintage rallys but not before then. There are also 3-4 very good 993 tuning shops in the USA. Rothsport Racing are probably the ones who will do my engine. They have an engine dyno and I can ship them 40L of our 98 with the engine so they can build, motec and tune with correct gas. They can do a really lovely ITB 380bhp street engine with centre exit GT3 rear box and custom manolds still retaining heat and air con. Its pricey though. Im still working through configurations but we are talking around 60-70K NZD for a 400 bhp street engine. Theres a point you have to stop and unless you are racing on sponsors ticket I think maybe these 9M and Rothsport builds are in reality a step above where one should go with these cars really....
Are you still deliberating suspension? Its coilovers or struts and springs. B6 (HD) with MO30/H&R springs or PSS10. Apart from KW offerings in the coilover camp this is pretty much all you need to decide. Stiffer roll bars compliment both set ups well. With the 993 it enjoys more negative camber than the 964. For street track you can use -2 at the front and similar at the rear no problems.
I feel the budget hammer coming on in our household too. Rather sharply I should add. I wont be getting away with much more than events this year. I think that alone is probably going to add up to more than the average NZ wage after tax in any case! I just looked at my NZ tickets and Im in town a month from early/mid March!
John. You are right that the suspension isnt the weakest link. The prime issue right now is confidence to push on into turn 1 and also pick up a good line in T10 from what you are saying so far. The seats and harness will help make things feel a bit more secure. The other area that gives you confidence is suspension. This was the really big improvement for me. Once I had the PSS10 and correct geo in place I could really feel where the edge of traction was and how well the front tyres were biting. In the 911 going fast on the back roads is all about understanding what those front wheels are going IMO and how they are keying into the surface when you turn in. The rear is all about oversteer. What you need to be telepathed from the rear is less detailed form the front, what you need to know from the rear is when its going to go and what you need to understand from experience is how to catch it when it does and how much progression you have (slip degrees etc). Lastly stability under brakes is really important IMO. An LSD helps here but also suspension plays a very critical roll.
All of that said if Steve reckons your suspension set up is ok for the level you are at now I would listen to him. Steve moves too slow for me (Im like an impatient Jedi Knight in training LOL!) but if you have the time and dont mind taking it at a different pace like you do I think following his sage advice is a good idea. Maybe next get a few more cheap KGs out of the car and wait it out for later in the year when you are consistently putting in the times you want.
Pete. Interesting story. I know Paul Stephens from selling him some genuine 964RS wheels about 10 years ago. Back then he was just starting to look at his PS kits. I had a UK mate who looked in the USA, UK and everywhere for a backdate kit, decided to go with a different lower cost solution budgeting 30K GBP. Short of the long is it ended up costing 45K GBP and Paul was quoting 65K for turn key stage 2 in the early days. Today he wishes he had gone that way as PS retros are fetching stronger used money and are much better than what he ended up with. The big lesson however is there is no low cost way to backdate 964 to long hood cheaply. They arent the best platform from a chassis and frame point of view (the G series are easier for mounting points etc) they just happen to be the best value donors for the tech/power/refinements. At least they were while 964 in UK were cheap and although you can still pick up a worthy donor for 15k GBP the days of taking a good 964 and backdating it are long gone. In the next 5 years if you have a stock 964 and you are worried about residuals youll benefit far more leaving it bone stock IMO....
John. Mike @ endless was great to deal with. He may have your size in stock. Mine were larger for the brake upgrade and needed ordering in takes about 35-40 days just FYI.
Are you still deliberating suspension? Its coilovers or struts and springs. B6 (HD) with MO30/H&R springs or PSS10. Apart from KW offerings in the coilover camp this is pretty much all you need to decide. Stiffer roll bars compliment both set ups well. With the 993 it enjoys more negative camber than the 964. For street track you can use -2 at the front and similar at the rear no problems.
I feel the budget hammer coming on in our household too. Rather sharply I should add. I wont be getting away with much more than events this year. I think that alone is probably going to add up to more than the average NZ wage after tax in any case! I just looked at my NZ tickets and Im in town a month from early/mid March!
John. You are right that the suspension isnt the weakest link. The prime issue right now is confidence to push on into turn 1 and also pick up a good line in T10 from what you are saying so far. The seats and harness will help make things feel a bit more secure. The other area that gives you confidence is suspension. This was the really big improvement for me. Once I had the PSS10 and correct geo in place I could really feel where the edge of traction was and how well the front tyres were biting. In the 911 going fast on the back roads is all about understanding what those front wheels are going IMO and how they are keying into the surface when you turn in. The rear is all about oversteer. What you need to be telepathed from the rear is less detailed form the front, what you need to know from the rear is when its going to go and what you need to understand from experience is how to catch it when it does and how much progression you have (slip degrees etc). Lastly stability under brakes is really important IMO. An LSD helps here but also suspension plays a very critical roll.
All of that said if Steve reckons your suspension set up is ok for the level you are at now I would listen to him. Steve moves too slow for me (Im like an impatient Jedi Knight in training LOL!) but if you have the time and dont mind taking it at a different pace like you do I think following his sage advice is a good idea. Maybe next get a few more cheap KGs out of the car and wait it out for later in the year when you are consistently putting in the times you want.
Pete. Interesting story. I know Paul Stephens from selling him some genuine 964RS wheels about 10 years ago. Back then he was just starting to look at his PS kits. I had a UK mate who looked in the USA, UK and everywhere for a backdate kit, decided to go with a different lower cost solution budgeting 30K GBP. Short of the long is it ended up costing 45K GBP and Paul was quoting 65K for turn key stage 2 in the early days. Today he wishes he had gone that way as PS retros are fetching stronger used money and are much better than what he ended up with. The big lesson however is there is no low cost way to backdate 964 to long hood cheaply. They arent the best platform from a chassis and frame point of view (the G series are easier for mounting points etc) they just happen to be the best value donors for the tech/power/refinements. At least they were while 964 in UK were cheap and although you can still pick up a worthy donor for 15k GBP the days of taking a good 964 and backdating it are long gone. In the next 5 years if you have a stock 964 and you are worried about residuals youll benefit far more leaving it bone stock IMO....
John. Mike @ endless was great to deal with. He may have your size in stock. Mine were larger for the brake upgrade and needed ordering in takes about 35-40 days just FYI.
01-03-2014, 02:58 AM
#7675
Rennlist Member
How do you mean your source will have a mix? When I put MX72s all round I found when the fronts had totally worn the rears were still almost brand new. So we put them to the front and some old Pagid Blacks to the rear. The front just does so much more of the braking at the track. We're lucky with the C4s being same size calipers front to back (were )
)
01-03-2014, 03:00 AM
#7676
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How do you mean your source will have a mix? When I put MX72s all round I found when the fronts had totally worn the rears were still almost brand new. So we put them to the front and some old Pagid Blacks to the rear. The front just does so much more of the braking at the track. We're lucky with the C4s being same size calipers front to back (were )
)With 993 at least (racing cars) its preferable for experienced drivers to have a little more rear bias than the factory road car set up. The specs are below. Recommended is RS calipers rear with Turbo front. the RS rears have larger pistons than the turbo rears and thus take off a bit of that front bias. The problem of course again is over working the fronts in competition and also stability under brakes. People play with the pads to bring back a fraction more front bias such as courser pad on the front.
Bob put together this which probably also useful for 964...
01-03-2014, 04:41 AM
#7677
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The most recent base for a backdate is the 964. The beauty of those is that you can do it in stages, which is effectively what I've done. Talk to Steve as he has some of the parts e.g. a long nose bonnet with a 964 fixing point that obviates the need for cutting metal. Nothing I've done so far is redundant in a backdate and I get to refine the base car before the bodywork is done.
01-03-2014, 04:43 AM
#7678
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The most recent base for a backdate is the 964. The beauty of those is that you can do it in stages, which is effectively what I've done. Talk to Steve as he has some of the parts e.g. a long nose bonnet with a 964 fixing point that obviates the need for cutting metal. Nothing I've done so far is redundant in a backdate and I get to refine the base car before the bodywork is done.
01-03-2014, 04:48 AM
#7679
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You need to save it from all this :-P
01-03-2014, 04:55 AM
#7680
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Doug, I think the most easterly point could be ticked off for me at a later point. A large part of the fun is being with the Group, plus we're going to be pushing it to cover this distance with in the time allocated. I'd like to stick to the Cape Reinga extension, as I think it will be challenging enough. BTW pedants will point out that Bluff is not the most Southern point, Slope point is....
"Cape Reinga to Slope Point" doesn't really have the same ring as "Cape Reinga to Bluff"... But I will probably slink off at the end of the day to get my pic with the car at Slope Point. I've just realised that I've already ticked off Manapouri last year as we'll,
So, we will do the Cape Reinga run then join the group for Ron's North Island run.
Now, for my next deviation to float past the group....my.South Island three crossings plan. I'll post it on the SITT RSG forum where this debate should occur :-)