Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
07-06-2013, 08:32 PM
#3571
Rennlist Member
Hi John. Yip same car/guys. Brent McCarthy is a regular in our group. Does the Sunday Runs Pat & Ron organise. Wealthy guy who owned the Cayman "RS" and shared the driving with his brother in the 2011 Targa. His brother Grant was driving when they came off the road and IIRC hit a tree. Big off. Wrote the car off (insured by Prestigo) and they were both lucky not to get more seriously mangled. Brent did the Targa with us 2012 with his wife this time but pulled out day two with some mechanical issues.....small world.
We should get an RSG Targa Tour group together for 2014? I know Sean and I would be interested and Im sure we can convince yourself, Pete, Matt and a few others to do it. Its a hell of an event, entirely different than Track work (car needs to be set up a little different too), a fair bit more hairy tho!
07-06-2013, 08:46 PM
#3572
Rennlist Member
There's no doubt the Tour is more dangerous than the competition event. lack of safety gear allowed is the prime reason. However you can have a roll cage.
To be honest if you take it at your own pace its very manageable. The key is not to get carried away. of the 5-6 accidents on our Tour at least three of them were due to inexperienced drivers getting carried away. People like Ron & Patsy have done 3 targa events a year for 4-5 years now without single incident. The better you know your car and its limits the safer it will be. That said a newer car is ultimately preferable in the events I feel (reliability, traction control, comfort etc).
To be honest if you take it at your own pace its very manageable. The key is not to get carried away. of the 5-6 accidents on our Tour at least three of them were due to inexperienced drivers getting carried away. People like Ron & Patsy have done 3 targa events a year for 4-5 years now without single incident. The better you know your car and its limits the safer it will be. That said a newer car is ultimately preferable in the events I feel (reliability, traction control, comfort etc).
07-07-2013, 12:12 AM
#3573
Three Wheelin'
In Shanghai as I write this and haven't caught up with the last few pages but feel a need to comment on the targa tour vs race event.
I agree with Macca the issue on the Tour is simply to keep it under control because it isn't a race and everyone should be there to have fun. There are so many blind corners that there is always one or two that are going to surprise and have the potential to catch out and cause problems. Often no runoff. So treat it like a trackday. Keep it on the tarmac and you will have a lot of fun. don't race the guy in front
There are more accidents in the race when drivers are pressing on but obviously more safety gear.
I agree with Macca the issue on the Tour is simply to keep it under control because it isn't a race and everyone should be there to have fun. There are so many blind corners that there is always one or two that are going to surprise and have the potential to catch out and cause problems. Often no runoff. So treat it like a trackday. Keep it on the tarmac and you will have a lot of fun. don't race the guy in front
There are more accidents in the race when drivers are pressing on but obviously more safety gear.
07-07-2013, 10:56 PM
#3574
Rennlist Member
On day 2, I followed Patsie in her Godzilla, she would toast me in a straight line, but I was slightly quicker through corners, so would catch her under braking and going through a corner.
The only times I felt unsafe where corners where you couldn't see the car in front. When the car in front panicked, you had extra time to respond.
07-07-2013, 11:47 PM
#3575
Rennlist Member
When I did the Targa Rotorua last year, I found the safest thing to do was to keep relatively on the tail of the car in front. My bumper, valance and window screen are rooted from this strategy, but seeing what the car in front of you does around a corner is the safest thing you can do. For day 1 I followed a chap in a racing BMW 3 series, I was faster in a straight line, but we where equally quick through the bendies.
On day 2, I followed Patsie in her Godzilla, she would toast me in a straight line, but I was slightly quicker through corners, so would catch her under braking and going through a corner.
The only times I felt unsafe where corners where you couldn't see the car in front. When the car in front panicked, you had extra time to respond.
On day 2, I followed Patsie in her Godzilla, she would toast me in a straight line, but I was slightly quicker through corners, so would catch her under braking and going through a corner.
The only times I felt unsafe where corners where you couldn't see the car in front. When the car in front panicked, you had extra time to respond.
The prime issue was infact she was feeding me too much information often in her concern to make sure we knew what was ahead. I was having to mentally sift the important points whilst driving....
I talked to some of the more experienced Tour and Competition guys in the evening and it became apparent how valuable a good navigator/driver relationship can be to making swift and safe progress. I got some in car footage from a Tour team whereby the navigator has previously navigated in the competition proper for a few years before teaming up with a mate to do the tour together. Listening to the commentary was interesting. The experienced navigator communicated half as much as my wife and used more precise terminology and a set system of annunciations to indicate the severity of the warning ahead. They also communicated the caution much closer to the point it took place instead of counting down 400m out like my wife. It was an important differentiation and demonstrated the benefit of an experienced navigator and a tight partnership in the car.
Im sure Graeme will have his own point of view on this having been a competitor proper for a number of years. These were just my observations after 5 days as a newbie. The route books have alot of detail and filtering the information seems to be a key part of the navigators role...
07-08-2013, 12:25 AM
#3576
Rennlist Member
I agree keeping a visual on the car in front was beneficial. However we were encouraged not to tailgate so kept a respectable 100m behind at all times. Infact my wife insisted on it claiming we would put pressure on the car in front if we kept on their tail and that is when a mistake would be made. When we hit long windy patches we lost visibility of the car in-front with this approach and yes it is a little unnerving initially. But the route book and rally computer were almost faultless in preparing us for the unseen. My wife was a novice navigator but by the end of day two we had a solid system in place.
The prime issue was infact she was feeding me too much information often in her concern to make sure we knew what was ahead. I was having to mentally sift the important points whilst driving....
I talked to some of the more experienced Tour and Competition guys in the evening and it became apparent how valuable a good navigator/driver relationship can be to making swift and safe progress. I got some in car footage from a Tour team whereby the navigator has previously navigated in the competition proper for a few years before teaming up with a mate to do the tour together. Listening to the commentary was interesting. The experienced navigator communicated half as much as my wife and used more precise terminology and a set system of annunciations to indicate the severity of the warning ahead. They also communicated the caution much closer to the point it took place instead of counting down 400m out like my wife. It was an important differentiation and demonstrated the benefit of an experienced navigator and a tight partnership in the car.
Im sure Graeme will have his own point of view on this having been a competitor proper for a number of years. These were just my observations after 5 days as a newbie. The route books have alot of detail and filtering the information seems to be a key part of the navigators role...
The prime issue was infact she was feeding me too much information often in her concern to make sure we knew what was ahead. I was having to mentally sift the important points whilst driving....
I talked to some of the more experienced Tour and Competition guys in the evening and it became apparent how valuable a good navigator/driver relationship can be to making swift and safe progress. I got some in car footage from a Tour team whereby the navigator has previously navigated in the competition proper for a few years before teaming up with a mate to do the tour together. Listening to the commentary was interesting. The experienced navigator communicated half as much as my wife and used more precise terminology and a set system of annunciations to indicate the severity of the warning ahead. They also communicated the caution much closer to the point it took place instead of counting down 400m out like my wife. It was an important differentiation and demonstrated the benefit of an experienced navigator and a tight partnership in the car.
Im sure Graeme will have his own point of view on this having been a competitor proper for a number of years. These were just my observations after 5 days as a newbie. The route books have alot of detail and filtering the information seems to be a key part of the navigators role...
07-08-2013, 12:47 AM
#3578
Rennlist Member
I agree there were hazards that really didn't warrant their caution rating and then others (like increasingly tightening blind corners) that deserved a higher caution rating than was given. This is where I think an experienced navigator/driver team have some advantage in choosing which information to overload the driver with and which to simply make cursory note to. In the competition proper I suspect it would be rare to see the rear of the car in front in order to gauge the route so its all on the navigators instructions.
There sure were some moments of uncertainty over fast brows hoping the navigator and book had got it right!
Our most memorable drives were the road into and out of Whangamonoma (spelling?) which was a 45km stage each way full of twisties. Jo dropped the route book on the floor at the beginning of outward stage as I accelerated uncharacteristically violently at the beginning of the stage intent on keeping the Cayman S in front of me in my sights. With the book on the floor for the first 15km I had no choice but to keep on his tail using your strategy as my only option!
The Gentle Annie 1 + 2 stages were also a huge amount of fun. Long, flowing wide, recently sealed this was a great fast drive and not over taxing (i.e. good visibility through corners etc).
When you came off the back of a particularly hard stage that you knew you had driven well the satisfaction was immense. Pounding the car hard for 960 closed stages over 6 days with 2000 km of touring really gave pride in how well built (and prepared) these 20 year old cars are.
Unfortunately I am likely unable to do the Tour again this year due to a European trip but I will definitely take lace next year and hope we can get a small RSG group along to take part. Its a real enduro adventure and a total adrenaline trip as you will know Paul. Maybe Sean, Pete, John yourself and myself could become the "vintage car" segment!
There sure were some moments of uncertainty over fast brows hoping the navigator and book had got it right!
Our most memorable drives were the road into and out of Whangamonoma (spelling?) which was a 45km stage each way full of twisties. Jo dropped the route book on the floor at the beginning of outward stage as I accelerated uncharacteristically violently at the beginning of the stage intent on keeping the Cayman S in front of me in my sights. With the book on the floor for the first 15km I had no choice but to keep on his tail using your strategy as my only option!
The Gentle Annie 1 + 2 stages were also a huge amount of fun. Long, flowing wide, recently sealed this was a great fast drive and not over taxing (i.e. good visibility through corners etc).
When you came off the back of a particularly hard stage that you knew you had driven well the satisfaction was immense. Pounding the car hard for 960 closed stages over 6 days with 2000 km of touring really gave pride in how well built (and prepared) these 20 year old cars are.
Unfortunately I am likely unable to do the Tour again this year due to a European trip but I will definitely take lace next year and hope we can get a small RSG group along to take part. Its a real enduro adventure and a total adrenaline trip as you will know Paul. Maybe Sean, Pete, John yourself and myself could become the "vintage car" segment!
07-08-2013, 12:48 AM
#3579
Rennlist Member
I agree there were hazards that really didn't warrant their caution rating and then others (like increasingly tightening blind corners) that deserved a higher caution rating than was given. This is where I think an experienced navigator/driver team have some advantage in choosing which information to overload the driver with and which to simply make cursory note to. In the competition proper I suspect it would be rare to see the rear of the car in front in order to gauge the route so its all on the navigators instructions.
There sure were some moments of uncertainty over fast brows hoping the navigator and book had got it right!
Our most memorable drives were the road into and out of Whangamonoma (spelling?) which was a 45km stage each way full of twisties. Jo dropped the route book on the floor at the beginning of outward stage as I accelerated uncharacteristically violently at the beginning of the stage intent on keeping the Cayman S in front of me in my sights. With the book on the floor for the first 15km I had no choice but to keep on his tail using your strategy as my only option!
The Gentle Annie 1 + 2 stages were also a huge amount of fun. Long, flowing wide, recently sealed this was a great fast drive and not over taxing (i.e. good visibility through corners etc).
When you came off the back of a particularly hard stage that you knew you had driven well the satisfaction was immense. Pounding the car hard for 960 closed stages over 6 days with 2000 km of touring really gave pride in how well built (and prepared) these 20 year old cars are.
Unfortunately I am likely unable to do the Tour again this year due to a European trip but I will definitely take lace next year and hope we can get a small RSG group along to take part. Its a real enduro adventure and a total adrenaline trip as you will know Paul. Maybe Sean, Pete, John yourself and myself could become the "vintage car" segement!
There sure were some moments of uncertainty over fast brows hoping the navigator and book had got it right!
Our most memorable drives were the road into and out of Whangamonoma (spelling?) which was a 45km stage each way full of twisties. Jo dropped the route book on the floor at the beginning of outward stage as I accelerated uncharacteristically violently at the beginning of the stage intent on keeping the Cayman S in front of me in my sights. With the book on the floor for the first 15km I had no choice but to keep on his tail using your strategy as my only option!
The Gentle Annie 1 + 2 stages were also a huge amount of fun. Long, flowing wide, recently sealed this was a great fast drive and not over taxing (i.e. good visibility through corners etc).
When you came off the back of a particularly hard stage that you knew you had driven well the satisfaction was immense. Pounding the car hard for 960 closed stages over 6 days with 2000 km of touring really gave pride in how well built (and prepared) these 20 year old cars are.
Unfortunately I am likely unable to do the Tour again this year due to a European trip but I will definitely take lace next year and hope we can get a small RSG group along to take part. Its a real enduro adventure and a total adrenaline trip as you will know Paul. Maybe Sean, Pete, John yourself and myself could become the "vintage car" segement!
07-08-2013, 01:28 AM
#3581
Rennlist Member
In a single word. No.
The clutch appears to have flummoxed the mechanics. I paid Steve's bill on Friday and know that the correct clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing were used, but Contis are as of yet unable to work out why the clutch engages barely cm off the floor. It is virtually indrivable until they sort that out. Frustrating for them and me. This has been going on for more than a week. I'm reluctant to put the question up on the 964 forum as I don't want to give them a list of guesses but am getting close to doing that.
The clutch appears to have flummoxed the mechanics. I paid Steve's bill on Friday and know that the correct clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing were used, but Contis are as of yet unable to work out why the clutch engages barely cm off the floor. It is virtually indrivable until they sort that out. Frustrating for them and me. This has been going on for more than a week. I'm reluctant to put the question up on the 964 forum as I don't want to give them a list of guesses but am getting close to doing that.
07-08-2013, 01:44 AM
#3582
Three Wheelin'
'Tailing' the guy in front is ok if back far enough so that you don't get trapped by an error that he makes. In race conditions when pulling up to another car to pass and so relatively close I do find that it is best actually not to watch the guy in front too much and look at the road as much as possible.
The comments made about it being easier to follow within sight mean that you don't have to work so hard at reading the road and braking points etc. But over a 5 day period it would be better to stay back and improve those skills? very hard to build those skill otherwise and in race conditions you ae mostly not in sight of another competitor.
The comments made about it being easier to follow within sight mean that you don't have to work so hard at reading the road and braking points etc. But over a 5 day period it would be better to stay back and improve those skills? very hard to build those skill otherwise and in race conditions you ae mostly not in sight of another competitor.
07-08-2013, 01:53 AM
#3583
Rennlist Member
In a single word. No.
The clutch appears to have flummoxed the mechanics. I paid Steve's bill on Friday and know that the correct clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing were used, but Contis are as of yet unable to work out why the clutch engages barely cm off the floor. It is virtually indrivable until they sort that out. Frustrating for them and me. This has been going on for more than a week. I'm reluctant to put the question up on the 964 forum as I don't want to give them a list of guesses but am getting close to doing that.
The clutch appears to have flummoxed the mechanics. I paid Steve's bill on Friday and know that the correct clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing were used, but Contis are as of yet unable to work out why the clutch engages barely cm off the floor. It is virtually indrivable until they sort that out. Frustrating for them and me. This has been going on for more than a week. I'm reluctant to put the question up on the 964 forum as I don't want to give them a list of guesses but am getting close to doing that.
07-08-2013, 02:23 AM
#3584
Rennlist Member
The comments made about it being easier to follow within sight mean that you don't have to work so hard at reading the road and braking points etc. But over a 5 day period it would be better to stay back and improve those skills? very hard to build those skill otherwise and in race conditions you ae mostly not in sight of another competitor.
07-08-2013, 02:33 AM
#3585
Rennlist Member
Did the right thing by D. and won't post anything until their current fix theory is tested. They think the slave rod length is different in the car versus normal so are going to fit a new slave tomorrow. I had one fail 10 years ago in the turbo 3.6 so I don't mind changing out to a new part. I just hope for everyone's sake this is it.