Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
07-22-2015, 07:17 PM
Burning Brakes
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Last edited by pcarplayer; 07-22-2015 at 07:44 PM.
07-22-2015, 07:36 PM
Rennlist Member
Pel. There is nothing I can see with these cars that would make them non road registerable in NZ as long as they are carrying a 996 GT3 road VIN. They have lights and hadbrake and even the CAMs cage should be LVVC in NZ. You would need to change seats maybe and definately they would need LVVC but these are not LHD Cup cars we are talking about so complieance in NZ should be doable with a little leg work. If not they can certainly be complied in UK where rules are less stringent...
07-22-2015, 07:46 PM
Rennlist Member
I spent 4 months talking with the designer at JRZ in the USA (shocks were built in Japan) on their RS shocks prior to the PRO redesign (theywere working on it at the time but its development was very slow and came out 2 years after intended!).
They are a beautifully designed shock.
In the end the lack on NZ support and knowledge base on how to set these up and address any known issues pointed me back to the PSSS10 which were cheaper (wasnt a key consideration at the time I must admit) and much more a known quantity (about this time I was starting to learn the cost and headaches of being a guinea pig for 993 modifications!).
Im happy with the PSS10. They are a good road shock in NZ and so much better composed and less "crashy" than the HD with Mo30 springs I ran from 2005-2010 (found there way with my 996 GT3 hweels onto Asleys 993 which was sold to Tony M then crashed and now I think at Steve Rs).
If you are very serious about track work the Motons and RS Pros are definately the way to go. Seperate canisters with multi bumpand rebound settings minutely adjusted etc.
However you really need to be racing a 964/993 before that kind of 10K+ investment in shocks and dedication to setting up (ideally with geo guy at a the track for a few tests days) becomes viable IMO. Once you do Im sure they are good for 1s a lap at HD perfectly tuned. They would likely then be a total handful on any B road back road driving at pace you did and you will end up with a track only car. The PSS10 I must confess (and Im sure the KWV3 too) are the only reason I can still get some decent grip and complaince on Targa. Back off the sway bars to sift and set the shocks up on the softer side and they still work on teh roads. Ive no doubt you could get the Moton/RS PRO to do the same but lots of knowledge and playing around needed...
They are a beautifully designed shock.
In the end the lack on NZ support and knowledge base on how to set these up and address any known issues pointed me back to the PSSS10 which were cheaper (wasnt a key consideration at the time I must admit) and much more a known quantity (about this time I was starting to learn the cost and headaches of being a guinea pig for 993 modifications!).
Im happy with the PSS10. They are a good road shock in NZ and so much better composed and less "crashy" than the HD with Mo30 springs I ran from 2005-2010 (found there way with my 996 GT3 hweels onto Asleys 993 which was sold to Tony M then crashed and now I think at Steve Rs).
If you are very serious about track work the Motons and RS Pros are definately the way to go. Seperate canisters with multi bumpand rebound settings minutely adjusted etc.
However you really need to be racing a 964/993 before that kind of 10K+ investment in shocks and dedication to setting up (ideally with geo guy at a the track for a few tests days) becomes viable IMO. Once you do Im sure they are good for 1s a lap at HD perfectly tuned. They would likely then be a total handful on any B road back road driving at pace you did and you will end up with a track only car. The PSS10 I must confess (and Im sure the KWV3 too) are the only reason I can still get some decent grip and complaince on Targa. Back off the sway bars to sift and set the shocks up on the softer side and they still work on teh roads. Ive no doubt you could get the Moton/RS PRO to do the same but lots of knowledge and playing around needed...
07-22-2015, 08:00 PM
Rennlist Member
If a race car, why not save $10K and be 4 sec faster and buy a cup car of the same vintage?
It's a car with a very slim use and therefore even slimmer market?
Same reason the 993 RS Magnum have doesn't sell?
07-22-2015, 08:08 PM
Rennlist Member
It's all relative Pel. I like the factory track focused build and that glorious engine, but a poor cheap example will likely end up as a poor expensive example if you use it as intended. I almost pulled the trigger on that car when it was $50k, but the untimely death of the owner and Steve's advice stopped me. I think it would have been a money pit.
Then you have a Singapore car with a high mileage and known to have had a hard life for $110K, or for circa $20K more a NZ new car with no track history and original paint, with only 50K on teh clock. I know which I would have.
The problem is hindsight is a wonderful thing. 5 years ago we should have all purchased long hoods, 18 months ago we should have purchased Lola for $30-something K or a 3.2 Carrera for the same, or a 930 for circa $50K, and six months ago a 996 GT3 for under a hundie.
In 12 months time - who knows what we should be buying now. Maybe the markets will crash and we will be saying we should all sold our toys now and brough back in the future at half the price??
07-22-2015, 08:14 PM
Rennlist Member
Paul. My understanding of those cars in Australia is they cant be registered for Australian road use due to pecularities in the road registration system there (i.e. lack of LVVC to allow bandwidth we have in NZ due to high number of Asian imports and lack of ADR type compliance).
Unless you know for sure they are not registereable in NZ?
Ive imported a few cars (as most know) and Ive been through complaince and Im aware of LVVC.
IMO these cars are worthy to look at for import to NZ based on price and exchange rate as long as they have not been rolled bowlled and a**holed.
If they are RHD GT3 and hold a PAG factory road car VIN then Im 99% certain with some smarts you could get these onto teh road in NZ although I confess viability would be dependant on how far they have been modified for competition use (i.e. lack of loom for lights and replacement plastic panels may make it more difficult and costsly).
Unless you know for sure they are not registereable in NZ?
Ive imported a few cars (as most know) and Ive been through complaince and Im aware of LVVC.
IMO these cars are worthy to look at for import to NZ based on price and exchange rate as long as they have not been rolled bowlled and a**holed.
If they are RHD GT3 and hold a PAG factory road car VIN then Im 99% certain with some smarts you could get these onto teh road in NZ although I confess viability would be dependant on how far they have been modified for competition use (i.e. lack of loom for lights and replacement plastic panels may make it more difficult and costsly).
07-22-2015, 08:15 PM
Rennlist Member
Warwick - what do you want to achieve?
If you are after a raod car with casual track day set-up - do what Pete did (and replace all your suspension rubbers).
Doing anything more will cost you anther $10K (like Macca's says) to only go another second faster? - and there are other ways to get this.
Suspension tidy up, Pete's rims with 221's, 50-80 kg's out with JMc strip and racing buckets is 80% of the easy gains. The last 20% is DT. Anything beyond this, just go buy a faster car as the cash vs benefit gain is really small.
If you are after a raod car with casual track day set-up - do what Pete did (and replace all your suspension rubbers).
Doing anything more will cost you anther $10K (like Macca's says) to only go another second faster? - and there are other ways to get this.
Suspension tidy up, Pete's rims with 221's, 50-80 kg's out with JMc strip and racing buckets is 80% of the easy gains. The last 20% is DT. Anything beyond this, just go buy a faster car as the cash vs benefit gain is really small.
07-22-2015, 08:18 PM
Rennlist Member
That is not the reason that the 993RS at Magnum is not selling.
I have reasonably extensive knowledge of this car. If anyone is seriously interested PM me. The car is not registerable in NZ currently (LHD and would require LVVC).
The reason the car has not sold (offshore most likely due in part tpo additional on shore GST requirements of the seller) is because HES ASKING TOO MUCH FOR IT and it comes with NO HISTORY. Its clearly been a race car in a prior life and it has many non original parts. the question is how deep do the mofocations go (gearbox, engine etc) and how many hours does it have on these.
The 996 GT3 situation in Australia will likely be different as history can be supplied and in English too which is a benefit over the above where any of teh few records that come with the car are in Japanese.
I have reasonably extensive knowledge of this car. If anyone is seriously interested PM me. The car is not registerable in NZ currently (LHD and would require LVVC).
The reason the car has not sold (offshore most likely due in part tpo additional on shore GST requirements of the seller) is because HES ASKING TOO MUCH FOR IT and it comes with NO HISTORY. Its clearly been a race car in a prior life and it has many non original parts. the question is how deep do the mofocations go (gearbox, engine etc) and how many hours does it have on these.
The 996 GT3 situation in Australia will likely be different as history can be supplied and in English too which is a benefit over the above where any of teh few records that come with the car are in Japanese.
07-22-2015, 08:18 PM
Rennlist Member
No I don't - it will come down to paperwork. I do know Stan from Performance 9 investigated complying a similar GT3 in NZ a few years ago and couldn't.
At $68K AUD - not sure the money will work out, there will be no change from a $110K by the time you ship, comply and pay GST?
Mind you - a 6.1 is probably north of $130K now if you can find one in NZ?
At $68K AUD - not sure the money will work out, there will be no change from a $110K by the time you ship, comply and pay GST?
Mind you - a 6.1 is probably north of $130K now if you can find one in NZ?
07-22-2015, 08:41 PM
Rennlist Member
Firstly you probably could pay 62K for that car if haggled hard which would make it under 90K NZD landed complied with GST assuming say $2000 of extra costs to get it complied.
Devil is in the detail. But over the years Ive seen far more difficult cars than this complied. Even recently. Just ask Graeme :-)
Its still viable if its a decent example but if its a heavily campaigned car with a re shell or crash history probably not.
Most of us on here are not buying these cars as investments. The fact they are going up in value is probably more a spoiler over time than anything else. Sure its nice to know that the car you bought a few years ago is not going to loose you money after all is said and done, or even make you 20-30K but thats not really the point for most of us on here. We are not collectors or investors, we are enthusiats who enjoy modifying and driving our cars on road, Targa & track. Its great looking back with hindsight but frankly, and I cant speak for other, I own precisely the cars I want to own and dont for a minute regret not buying a old junker for 25K before of the longhood revibal or an SC for 30K or a 964 for 40K, or a 996 GT3 for 80K - I didnt want to own one of those cars back then and I still dont want to own one of those cars now, although Im sure if I sold my GT3 & 993 I could buy a garage full of them today - I still wont do that because I dont speicifcally want to own any of thse cars today! Infact two cars is too much IMO and I see myself going back to a single 911 policy again in the future (probably the 993 with a rodded engine). At the end of the day if its money driving the equation then there are more profitable options available (15% appreciation of USD:NZD in the last 6 months is one I can think of, with plentymore to come over the next 6 months I suspect...).
Devil is in the detail. But over the years Ive seen far more difficult cars than this complied. Even recently. Just ask Graeme :-)
Its still viable if its a decent example but if its a heavily campaigned car with a re shell or crash history probably not.
Most of us on here are not buying these cars as investments. The fact they are going up in value is probably more a spoiler over time than anything else. Sure its nice to know that the car you bought a few years ago is not going to loose you money after all is said and done, or even make you 20-30K but thats not really the point for most of us on here. We are not collectors or investors, we are enthusiats who enjoy modifying and driving our cars on road, Targa & track. Its great looking back with hindsight but frankly, and I cant speak for other, I own precisely the cars I want to own and dont for a minute regret not buying a old junker for 25K before of the longhood revibal or an SC for 30K or a 964 for 40K, or a 996 GT3 for 80K - I didnt want to own one of those cars back then and I still dont want to own one of those cars now, although Im sure if I sold my GT3 & 993 I could buy a garage full of them today - I still wont do that because I dont speicifcally want to own any of thse cars today! Infact two cars is too much IMO and I see myself going back to a single 911 policy again in the future (probably the 993 with a rodded engine). At the end of the day if its money driving the equation then there are more profitable options available (15% appreciation of USD:NZD in the last 6 months is one I can think of, with plentymore to come over the next 6 months I suspect...).
07-22-2015, 08:42 PM
Rennlist Member
Pel, any car can be tracked, albeit the non Mezger engines are a lottery unless sorted out first. The question is what you want to get out of it?
Experience tells me that if you want to be lapping others rather than being lapped, then the best platform is one Porsche intended to be tracked as it will be closer to the end point. Relatively young cars help as well as wear and tear costs to put right.
The above sums up why my third Porsche, which was a clean slate purchase, was the R. I couild equally have gone with a GT3, but I would have had to accept an older car for the same price point.
That said, the very cheapest option is to drive what you have within its capabilities and enjoy yourself.
Experience tells me that if you want to be lapping others rather than being lapped, then the best platform is one Porsche intended to be tracked as it will be closer to the end point. Relatively young cars help as well as wear and tear costs to put right.
The above sums up why my third Porsche, which was a clean slate purchase, was the R. I couild equally have gone with a GT3, but I would have had to accept an older car for the same price point.
That said, the very cheapest option is to drive what you have within its capabilities and enjoy yourself.
07-22-2015, 08:49 PM
Rennlist Member
[/RIGHT]Best value track car right now PEL (aside form tuition) would be taking a standard carrera 996/997 C2 and spending 10-15K making it quicker. Suspension, tyres, pads, fluids and a lightening excerise in the interior with a Spaco halo drivers seat and a PP passenger seat if geo'd and well set up will give you a 1.16 car at HD driven well for under 65K (assumes 996 donor). Sure you will have a potential MA6 engine issue in teh future but you can for 3-4K take precautionary measures and Im sure Steve R has a few cheap spares kicking around. This is what Jethro Bovington has done on EVO with his 996 C2 and its running times at the track only fractionally slower than a stock 996.1 GT3.
Its the same with all these cars. The GT3 is a product designed for the track and used it makes economic sense as it holds value but when the collectors and investors step in its no longer viable. That day has been coming for a while now.
Now the secondary market has had time to develop products for the older cars taking a base Carrera Coupe and applying carefully selected improvements will make for a very capable end product able to come within range of the GT3 type. However you will not have the cachet of the original - but youll drive it harder and probably have more fun with it keeping a bundle of money in your pocket for events.
Its the same with all these cars. The GT3 is a product designed for the track and used it makes economic sense as it holds value but when the collectors and investors step in its no longer viable. That day has been coming for a while now.
Now the secondary market has had time to develop products for the older cars taking a base Carrera Coupe and applying carefully selected improvements will make for a very capable end product able to come within range of the GT3 type. However you will not have the cachet of the original - but youll drive it harder and probably have more fun with it keeping a bundle of money in your pocket for events.
07-22-2015, 09:01 PM
Thats an option ive been researching, along with an older Cayman.
Or doing a 944.
Or waiting for a GT3.
I've been trying to sort Ray out for some lessons, will do a few more track days in what I have, something will come out of the woodwork.
Or doing a 944.
Or waiting for a GT3.
I've been trying to sort Ray out for some lessons, will do a few more track days in what I have, something will come out of the woodwork.