Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
05-01-2013, 05:25 AM
#2311
Rennlist Member
Jason, what's being proposed is a conversion to C2, which would have my C4 gearbox going in return for a C2 gearbox. Not sure how that translates into fixing your issue as I can't imagine you are looking to buy a complete gearbox and what would someone do with a C4 gearbox minus the planetary gear carrier? As alluded to in various posts (all gratefully received) I'm not sure this makes sense. I'm going to do more research. I don't want a huge investment in this car. I need to think this through.
05-01-2013, 05:42 AM
#2312
Rennlist Member
1) have a $5K a month car habit that turns into six figures over 3 yrs (I know the maths doesn't work - but it is true - must be reverse compound interest or something?
2) do a budget and pull up the spending at certain point (i.e. $20K) and just have fun. This will be $50K over 3 years.........
3) sell and just use the 996T as a casual track day toy.
First question to ask is how often you want to go to the track, 2-3 times a year for Porsche club days - just use the 96T, if you are like me and like to go 1-2 times a month - then opt 1 or 2 is your answer.
Its an expensive drug habbit. I call it "track cocaine" instead of crack cocaine.
05-01-2013, 05:43 AM
#2313
Pro
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05-01-2013, 05:48 AM
#2314
Rennlist Member
Don't worry about the mourning - 380hp and 1.15 lap times will help solve that..........
05-01-2013, 06:03 AM
#2316
Rennlist Member
I think there are 3 approaches
1) have a $5K a month car habit that turns into six figures over 3 yrs (I know the maths doesn't work - but it is true - must be reverse compound interest or something?
2) do a budget and pull up the spending at certain point (i.e. $20K) and just have fun. This will be $50K over 3 years.........
3) sell and just use the 996T as a casual track day toy.
First question to ask is how often you want to go to the track, 2-3 times a year for Porsche club days - just use the 96T, if you are like me and like to go 1-2 times a month - then opt 1 or 2 is your answer.
Its an expensive drug habbit. I call it "track cocaine" instead of crack cocaine.
05-01-2013, 06:20 AM
#2317
Addict
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05-01-2013, 06:29 AM
#2318
Rennlist Member
Matt,
If its the silver car in Paul's link above it looks like a great track/targa car and has all the tasty fruit and looks like its been cherished. I cant believe $80-90k can buy such a lot of quick car when having discussions like the ones we have had lately about modifying old timers....
John,
I found this post that makes the C2-C4 conversion sound simple. There's required than just a gear box change however and its seems few people have done the conversion. Im guessing there's alot of systems than need to be thought of....
"On a recent 5 hour plane flight I was bored and looked at the wiring issues of converting a C2 to C4, and it's neat that the process is actually quite simple thanks to Porsche's wiring. By purchasing a C2 ABS unit and the plug cut from a C2's harness, it is quite easy to remove the PDAS plug on the C4 and splice in the C2 ABS plug to the proper wires. That would permit the use of a C2 ABS brain with all functionality. After plugging off the hydraulic accumulator feed to the solenoid block, the extra C4 stuff can be removed: accelerometers, control unit, dash switch, PDAS solenoid block and all hydraulic lines to the transmission. Remove the tranny, drive shaft, front differential and CV's, and just plug in a 2wd 5 or 6 speed tranny and change the front axles - complete! It always seemed hard to manage the electronics, but it's not."
John, I was thinking and doing some reading. Its early days to be entering into a conversion of this magnitude and potential cost (the guys will still bill you almost $100 an hour to solve the problems they likely haven't even identified exist yet). Lets say its a 10k conversion cost. From what Im reading the conversion will maybe save you 2 seconds a lap on HD. Thing is right now like me you probably have 6-8 seconds a lap that can be cut just by becoming more experiences and proficient at driving. Me myself may never beable to get below a certain time in my 993 regardless of settings as everyone of us has level that our natural aptitude can be honed too and beyond that some are just luckier with the natural gene than others. Given by the time you have the engine rebuilt, new clutch, shocks sorted, new wheels, rubber, seats and its all aligned and ready to go you'll probably have 70k in this car its worth contemplating if possibly 10K to spend on changing the car from C4 to C2 and gaining potentially 2 seconds a lap at this stage of game is worth the investment (especially compared to perhaps more tyres, driver training, track days etc).
Again just another perspective but any decision you make will be the right one for you.
If its the silver car in Paul's link above it looks like a great track/targa car and has all the tasty fruit and looks like its been cherished. I cant believe $80-90k can buy such a lot of quick car when having discussions like the ones we have had lately about modifying old timers....
John,
I found this post that makes the C2-C4 conversion sound simple. There's required than just a gear box change however and its seems few people have done the conversion. Im guessing there's alot of systems than need to be thought of....
"On a recent 5 hour plane flight I was bored and looked at the wiring issues of converting a C2 to C4, and it's neat that the process is actually quite simple thanks to Porsche's wiring. By purchasing a C2 ABS unit and the plug cut from a C2's harness, it is quite easy to remove the PDAS plug on the C4 and splice in the C2 ABS plug to the proper wires. That would permit the use of a C2 ABS brain with all functionality. After plugging off the hydraulic accumulator feed to the solenoid block, the extra C4 stuff can be removed: accelerometers, control unit, dash switch, PDAS solenoid block and all hydraulic lines to the transmission. Remove the tranny, drive shaft, front differential and CV's, and just plug in a 2wd 5 or 6 speed tranny and change the front axles - complete! It always seemed hard to manage the electronics, but it's not."
John, I was thinking and doing some reading. Its early days to be entering into a conversion of this magnitude and potential cost (the guys will still bill you almost $100 an hour to solve the problems they likely haven't even identified exist yet). Lets say its a 10k conversion cost. From what Im reading the conversion will maybe save you 2 seconds a lap on HD. Thing is right now like me you probably have 6-8 seconds a lap that can be cut just by becoming more experiences and proficient at driving. Me myself may never beable to get below a certain time in my 993 regardless of settings as everyone of us has level that our natural aptitude can be honed too and beyond that some are just luckier with the natural gene than others. Given by the time you have the engine rebuilt, new clutch, shocks sorted, new wheels, rubber, seats and its all aligned and ready to go you'll probably have 70k in this car its worth contemplating if possibly 10K to spend on changing the car from C4 to C2 and gaining potentially 2 seconds a lap at this stage of game is worth the investment (especially compared to perhaps more tyres, driver training, track days etc).
Again just another perspective but any decision you make will be the right one for you.
05-01-2013, 06:43 AM
#2319
Rennlist Member
Matt,
If its the silver car in Paul's link above it looks like a great track/targa car and has all the tasty fruit and looks like its been cherished. I cant believe $80-90k can buy such a lot of quick car when having discussions like the ones we have had lately about modifying old timers....
John,
I found this post that makes the C2-C4 conversion sound simple. There's required than just a gear box change however and its seems few people have done the conversion. Im guessing there's alot of systems than need to be thought of....
"On a recent 5 hour plane flight I was bored and looked at the wiring issues of converting a C2 to C4, and it's neat that the process is actually quite simple thanks to Porsche's wiring. By purchasing a C2 ABS unit and the plug cut from a C2's harness, it is quite easy to remove the PDAS plug on the C4 and splice in the C2 ABS plug to the proper wires. That would permit the use of a C2 ABS brain with all functionality. After plugging off the hydraulic accumulator feed to the solenoid block, the extra C4 stuff can be removed: accelerometers, control unit, dash switch, PDAS solenoid block and all hydraulic lines to the transmission. Remove the tranny, drive shaft, front differential and CV's, and just plug in a 2wd 5 or 6 speed tranny and change the front axles - complete! It always seemed hard to manage the electronics, but it's not."
John, I was thinking and doing some reading. Its early days to be entering into a conversion of this magnitude and potential cost (the guys will still bill you almost $100 an hour to solve the problems they likely haven't even identified exist yet). Lets say its a 10k conversion cost. From what Im reading the conversion will maybe save you 2 seconds a lap on HD. Thing is right now like me you probably have 6-8 seconds a lap that can be cut just by becoming more experiences and proficient at driving. Me myself may never beable to get below a certain time in my 993 regardless of settings as everyone of us has level that our natural aptitude can be honed too and beyond that some are just luckier with the natural gene than others. Given by the time you have the engine rebuilt, new clutch, shocks sorted, new wheels, rubber, seats and its all aligned and ready to go you'll probably have 70k in this car its worth contemplating if possibly 10K to spend on changing the car from C4 to C2 and gaining potentially 2 seconds a lap at this stage of game is worth the investment (especially compared to perhaps more tyres, driver training, track days etc).
Again just another perspective but any decision you make will be the right one for you.
If its the silver car in Paul's link above it looks like a great track/targa car and has all the tasty fruit and looks like its been cherished. I cant believe $80-90k can buy such a lot of quick car when having discussions like the ones we have had lately about modifying old timers....
John,
I found this post that makes the C2-C4 conversion sound simple. There's required than just a gear box change however and its seems few people have done the conversion. Im guessing there's alot of systems than need to be thought of....
"On a recent 5 hour plane flight I was bored and looked at the wiring issues of converting a C2 to C4, and it's neat that the process is actually quite simple thanks to Porsche's wiring. By purchasing a C2 ABS unit and the plug cut from a C2's harness, it is quite easy to remove the PDAS plug on the C4 and splice in the C2 ABS plug to the proper wires. That would permit the use of a C2 ABS brain with all functionality. After plugging off the hydraulic accumulator feed to the solenoid block, the extra C4 stuff can be removed: accelerometers, control unit, dash switch, PDAS solenoid block and all hydraulic lines to the transmission. Remove the tranny, drive shaft, front differential and CV's, and just plug in a 2wd 5 or 6 speed tranny and change the front axles - complete! It always seemed hard to manage the electronics, but it's not."
John, I was thinking and doing some reading. Its early days to be entering into a conversion of this magnitude and potential cost (the guys will still bill you almost $100 an hour to solve the problems they likely haven't even identified exist yet). Lets say its a 10k conversion cost. From what Im reading the conversion will maybe save you 2 seconds a lap on HD. Thing is right now like me you probably have 6-8 seconds a lap that can be cut just by becoming more experiences and proficient at driving. Me myself may never beable to get below a certain time in my 993 regardless of settings as everyone of us has level that our natural aptitude can be honed too and beyond that some are just luckier with the natural gene than others. Given by the time you have the engine rebuilt, new clutch, shocks sorted, new wheels, rubber, seats and its all aligned and ready to go you'll probably have 70k in this car its worth contemplating if possibly 10K to spend on changing the car from C4 to C2 and gaining potentially 2 seconds a lap at this stage of game is worth the investment (especially compared to perhaps more tyres, driver training, track days etc).
Again just another perspective but any decision you make will be the right one for you.
05-01-2013, 07:21 AM
#2320
Three Wheelin'
There is only one Macca - the king of Pcar mods.
The first rule is to always keep plenty of bugdet for the track days, racing or whatever, and that means major maintenance items and rebuilds.
Second once that budget is set aside plan mods and progressively knock off the list over time.
Third, the head always says buy a car thats already done but the only problem with this is that you never have the same emotional attachment to a car that way. i have bought race cars and been happy with the value decision by the one that I feel most attached to is the one that I built because you spend all the time thinking about each item and progressively improve the car. So it depends on whether you think of cars that way and how much. Most of us do. Fuchs from Germany, or speedlines from USA or enkeis from japan, half the fun is actually the research and the decision.
show you some of my little items/projects
First is the front suspension on the kit car. custom wider top wishbones, more adjustment range, rose jointed and nickel plated per traditional motorsport applications (not chromed), wider bottom wishbones,
custom soft front sway bar and drop link to a modified point for minimum friction . Inboard adjustable coilovers via rocker arm - cant see that but rocker arm is a nice piece like cnc machined.
Second is the Targa car front shocks and top mounts. Max castor set up. MCA remote cannisters 40 clicks adjustment.
Hope the pics will upload. And I already posted gearbox pics. The motec was set up today. shift time has been set at 100 millisecs (one tenth), not very fast but best be safe. engine has been refreshed and dyno's today also and managed to squeeze a little more out of it.
Problem now is looks like I might miss Rotorua Targa next week. Been laid low with a viral thing and still not recovered so don't want to risk anything.
The first rule is to always keep plenty of bugdet for the track days, racing or whatever, and that means major maintenance items and rebuilds.
Second once that budget is set aside plan mods and progressively knock off the list over time.
Third, the head always says buy a car thats already done but the only problem with this is that you never have the same emotional attachment to a car that way. i have bought race cars and been happy with the value decision by the one that I feel most attached to is the one that I built because you spend all the time thinking about each item and progressively improve the car. So it depends on whether you think of cars that way and how much. Most of us do. Fuchs from Germany, or speedlines from USA or enkeis from japan, half the fun is actually the research and the decision.
show you some of my little items/projects
First is the front suspension on the kit car. custom wider top wishbones, more adjustment range, rose jointed and nickel plated per traditional motorsport applications (not chromed), wider bottom wishbones,
custom soft front sway bar and drop link to a modified point for minimum friction . Inboard adjustable coilovers via rocker arm - cant see that but rocker arm is a nice piece like cnc machined.
Second is the Targa car front shocks and top mounts. Max castor set up. MCA remote cannisters 40 clicks adjustment.
Hope the pics will upload. And I already posted gearbox pics. The motec was set up today. shift time has been set at 100 millisecs (one tenth), not very fast but best be safe. engine has been refreshed and dyno's today also and managed to squeeze a little more out of it.
Problem now is looks like I might miss Rotorua Targa next week. Been laid low with a viral thing and still not recovered so don't want to risk anything.
Last edited by gt38088; 01-08-2014 at 06:32 AM.
05-01-2013, 07:33 AM
#2321
Rennlist Member
I reckon the RSC "Rennsport Social Club" need to have an AGM at the pub somewhere.
Since half you guys live in Kohi, maybe you can suggest a local out that way.
Since half you guys live in Kohi, maybe you can suggest a local out that way.
05-01-2013, 07:35 AM
#2322
Rennlist Member
Graeme.
Yeah. King of Pcar mods and poor of pocket LOL!
Im afraid Im not so familiar with the Fraser/Westfield but I understand the benefits of the heim jointed hardware. I have some parts like that to put on the rear 993 suspension once I understand better how the car performs on the current set up now Im moving to R rated rubber. Do you use rubber boots to protect these from road grim & debris or do they not see too much wet gritty road use?
Love the remote adjustable shocks. Always regreted not getting Motons from the beginning for the 993 (started with Bilstein HDs, then PSS10 and spent just as much likely). What camber settings do you typically use for Targa on that rig?
It looks like you have put some real passion and $$$ into those two cars. very sorry to hear about Rotorua - hope you make it!
Yeah. King of Pcar mods and poor of pocket LOL!
Im afraid Im not so familiar with the Fraser/Westfield but I understand the benefits of the heim jointed hardware. I have some parts like that to put on the rear 993 suspension once I understand better how the car performs on the current set up now Im moving to R rated rubber. Do you use rubber boots to protect these from road grim & debris or do they not see too much wet gritty road use?
Love the remote adjustable shocks. Always regreted not getting Motons from the beginning for the 993 (started with Bilstein HDs, then PSS10 and spent just as much likely). What camber settings do you typically use for Targa on that rig?
It looks like you have put some real passion and $$$ into those two cars. very sorry to hear about Rotorua - hope you make it!
05-01-2013, 07:41 AM
#2324
Rennlist Member
PS. Graeme agree with your sentiments regards building your own rig from scratch instead of buying someone elses. ts also beneficial to have known all work completed on the car to give confidence when your in the middle of an event (no guarantees tho).
05-01-2013, 07:43 AM
#2325
Rennlist Member
John, you need to google more info about the C4L.
These cars are lighter and much faster than a 64 RS.
If you totally gutted the interior, front bonnet, heater fans, air cond etc and stored them in a box (for re-installation at some future date), you are only paying labour for someone to spend 2-3 days stripping your car and you will take 150kgs out and be quicker than a C2.
This, tires and track set up suspension would be your best gains and you can do for your budget.
It won't be pleasant on long drives, but you have the 64T for these.
http://www.maxted-page.com/resourcel...f75ccb7dc7.pdf
These cars are lighter and much faster than a 64 RS.
If you totally gutted the interior, front bonnet, heater fans, air cond etc and stored them in a box (for re-installation at some future date), you are only paying labour for someone to spend 2-3 days stripping your car and you will take 150kgs out and be quicker than a C2.
This, tires and track set up suspension would be your best gains and you can do for your budget.
It won't be pleasant on long drives, but you have the 64T for these.
http://www.maxted-page.com/resourcel...f75ccb7dc7.pdf