Good idea, bad timing for me anyway, as I'm travelling for the next few weeks. Maybe a late May night in Mission Bay.

 

car doesnt go out if its got any prospect of a drop of rain so no boots. the main reason i'm soft and the car has no windscreen or side screens - only a wind deflector. anything over 70kph needs a helmet - under that and glasses and beanie is ok. at 160kph on the track the wind is smacking the top of the helmet off the wind deflector and I have to shrink down a bit in the seat. fun fun.

Not too much camber for targa given variable road surfaces so I normally set up at around -1.45' (minus 1 and 3/4) but i am maxed out on castor. I also run a little bit of toe out but on the last Targa went a little far and chewed out one set of tyres on the front. Maybe I might revert to zero toe to be safe.

 

Understeer on Targa can be expensive. I know because I own a couple of fence posts in Taranaki. so my reserve and backstop position is the left foot over the brake pedal (which is twice normal size/area) whilst the gas is on and just tap the brake to tune the front end depending on how the corner unfolds. Gas still on or not as the case demands

Tricky to do that with a 911 tho. :-)

 

I sourced them from Mega and they couriered them free to CCS. Brian there was great to deal with.

Peter will fit them in June while the wheels are off to Arrow for truing (fronts are out nominally - thanks to Targa road potholes) and check the alignment is holding. I probably wont install the suspension hardware I have (monoball tops with camber plates and heim jointed trail arm rods) until after the Track Tour as this time I want to change one thing at a time to understand the effects first. The only change over HD to the car dynamically for the Track Tour will be the Hankooks and possibly a little bit more stiffness?? from the bolt in cage. Doing the other stuff and the RS uprights means stripping out the shocks (again!!) and I dont really want to start with "scratch settings" for the track tour. For the Targa maybe....

I hope to have Dean fit the Heigo cage and strip out the rear seats and belts once the cage parts return from Hazlers in steel grey colour. Ill have the brake fluid changed (has done one Targa Tour and one HD day on current fluid) and the CF RS door cards that are being fabricated in Germany in May installed same time. There's a few small tidy up jobs on the worksheet as well. The car is still exhibiting difficulty in shifting into 3rd when the chassis is loaded up on the track. Ive noticed this since the DE at Taupo during the Feb 2012 Porsche parade and it was after having the full RS type ball jointed shiftier kit installed. Not sure what it can be as its supposed to make shifting easier not harder but suspect the new mechanism has put more strain on the shift shaft seal or needs some proper alignment.

Im sure Graeme will agree but it takes some time to "shake down" a car after having done extensive modifications. Im mindful with my limited time on the ground I often have a multitude of work done then rack up the Kms before handing it back to Dean to make necessary adjustments. Things like the bump steer under hard braking and the shift linkage are the last items left on the list since 2010 along with some mild tuning work that's still unfinished. Actually the car is not making nearly the power it was after the original dyno work as I changed the muffler afterwards (split the original rear boxes from the heat on the dyno combined with age). I replaced them with boxes that flowed less (was in a hurry for the Parade). Also I suspect the timing needs checking (now got solid lifters like 964). Infact I suspect the timing was never perfect with the higher lift cams as the accuracy required to set them up properly is not likely fully understood outside of a Porsche race shop. I think the engine will eventually need pulling down and doing properly. I wont be having it done in NZ next time (lotto win dependent!).

Its definitely a crack addiction. But it keeps you busy and if you enjoy it then its actually very rewarding...just be nice to spend more time driving than researching!

I reckon Peter has it right at the sweet spot in his C4. Work car/track hack, not too much invested but some nice upgrades I guess like Matt when he ran his C2. That an enviable balance. These are old cars so factoring in 10K a year for the odd gearbox/engine rebuild over 3 years of regular tracking and daily usage would be about right especially taking in the speed of wear on brake pads, discs, bearings, bushes, clutches & shocks along with more regular brake, transmission and engine fluid changes. Every now and then something will give, but we aren't driving 2010 GT3s so to be expected...

Kohi sounds like the logical location for an AGM!

 

I agree with light weight too per comment above. even 100kg is massive difference and you can feel it immediately. Cheapest mod too if you are just taking things out! Expensive if you have to replace parts with custom made or carbon etc

 

most of us are too conservative with set up adjustments and trying different things cos its easy to think this feels good enough and leave it. I'm talking mainly suspension here and pressures
But definitely try things and write is all down in a book to review later. And try again the same things in different conditions....

 

Thanks Graeme. All makes sense. Frankly you'd be a masochistic going out in anything but fair weather in the open wheeler I would have thought so I guessed that rose jointed gear didnt see too much wet driving - never know tho with you hard assed Wellingtonians!

Thanks for the data points on the Sube Targa car. These cars ride much differently than an old 911 of course as you know. I had the 993 set up to slight over-steer rather than under-steer for the Targa with -1.3 front camber and -2.0 rear. ARBs all set to "soft" and shocks around mid settings. I was early to turn in and hug corners maily as I relaised with some of the corners they just keep tightening forever and if I started to far out at speed I would have to correct quite quickly turning on lock that would induce potential over-steer. It was preferable to setting it up the other way around as a Taranaki post owner you would know LOL! That said the 911 isnt as sure footed as the Sube. Those Taranaki Roads were some of the most enjoyable Ive driven. Gentle Annie 1 + 2 was a superb bit of fun with nice wide new seal. Quite fast though which the 911 didn't revel in quite as much as the really tight twisty stuff where it really had the advantage over others in the pack. Just thinking about it makes me anxious to do it all over again. Cant wait. Big adrenaline shot though an a bit of an endurance sport. Makes track work seem very low risk (apart from the obvious mechanical stresses the track puts on the cars).

I hope you make Rotorua mate and best of luck to you if you do. If your fogged up with the flue though the drivers seat isn't the place to be...

 

I'm in AKL on average once a month usually day trip but could find my way to a pub on the way to the airport and a later flight

 

yep i agree about early turn in - may lose a bit of corner speed but with 1000s of corners there is always one or two that surprise and you need a little margin for this.

I reckon with the 911 it might we interesting to test on track with no cars around what happens if you keep gas on heading to apex and tap the brake. Gas off and it will destabilise and maybe spin. But gas on will it be more stable??

when I first ran the subey in the wet at Rotorua a few years ago and the rear end was set up stiff because the car is front heavy, I was left foot braking gas off and the car spun really quickly - lucky didn't hit anything and was half off the road backwards. After that I had gas on every time, constant throttle (not too heavy) and turning to the apex controlling speed with the brake- both on. No more problems and felt stable.

Before my first Targa driving in 2007 (codrive 2005) I was driving around the streets everywhere practicing left foot braking... helped that i raced Karts for about 5 years. But the main thing is to get the sensitivity and co-ordination cos left is just used to banging the clutch in
bed time

 

Graeme. Agree with your sentiments on set up. Having a huge resource for Porsches like Rennlist helps take out some of the guesswork though Ive found talking with others. Increased camber for the HD day to -2.0 at the front and -2.5 (21/2 degrees) rear. Too much on the rear and too much probably overall for the street rubber. Pressures became far more important than camber. Next time ill take my digital thermometer to get a better understanding of whats actually happening across the tyre face but hopefully with the Z221s should see much more uniform temps. I enjoy this technical aspect off the track. You don't get the luxury of knowing the surface too well on tarmac rally.

I think the weight saving thing is a given. Leave the air con in if you are intending to do any Targa NZ Tours though. I personally never run with my drivers window down on hot days (rather loose some power with air con running). I met with Owen Evens many years ago and still remember his arm flailing out the window at speed as that thing barrel rolled! Its also useful for demisting. Seans car is 1250 kg with half a tank and full cage so that gives you a good target (Im not sure if he still runs with air con tho). Getting a C4 below 1300kg would be good enough though if you are leaving sunroof in place. Front seats, rear seats, carpet, door cards and sound deadening are the obvious big/easy/cheap gains. After that it gets expensive....

 

Ive never learnt to left foot brake. Proficient heel and toe has always been my main target in the 993. Left foot braking is a really useful skill to learn but I have no where to practice.

In the 911 I do all thee braking prior to turning the nose in tight to the apex on the road. Keeping in the gas (partial, constant) is critical mid apex to keep the rear in line. Coming off the gas will achieve similar to tapping the brake left foot with gas on but with what you propose Im imagining the turn in attitude would be less pronounced so its well worth experimenting with a bit next time at the track. Paul or one of the others may have already explored this. The two cars are dynamically quite different bests and of course you are carrying at least 20-30% more speed in race trim in the competition. That said our lead cars were posting times (unofficial of course!) around mid field of the competition pack in Oct 2012 because they didn't restrict us at all! Pretty alarming when you figure no fire proof overalls or cages. Mind you a 550 bhp 2009 GTR with e-clutch and electronic safety nets is quite a different proposition to a 300 bhp 20 year old 911 with a missus sh*tting bricks in the passenger seat LOL! Shes such a darling and hasn't complained about my driving since ha ha.

 

Good idea - why don't we chuck a date in the diary and see who's up for it. I was going to suggest Galbraiths but I guess Kohi/Mission Bay may suit more and I'm half way between. How about the Belgian beer place - Thurs 23rd? (you can book flights now Macca!)

 

I know it works in a range of cars cos my first targa car was a civic type r and that was really good tuning the attitude with LFB. But I had already sold my gt3 by then. The reason why I mention it is the Evo mag guys who love 911's always talk about getting the turn in and trail braking. But you will find that whatever the cars basic characteristics it will be more stable trail braking with some gas on. The extension of this is then when you think you are able to increase gas and find that its too early you can tap brake. I posted a youtube a while ago let me see if I can find it. Gear changes were really slow looking at it in hindsight but I tend to be kind on gearbox and have been able to run up to 18/20 days - 2 or 2 1/2 years targas before rebuild.
haha indeed macca I wouldn't be allowed to race Targa any more if my missus had a go at co driving- too fast and thats with a restricted turbo
see if that works might have to cut and paste.
I have a few other clips there too chasing a gt3 and chasing a 500hp clk63 black and then one of my fence incidents. Can but laugh and book it to experience. these were in a bug eye.

 

I fly back in Friday, 24th. Maybe we could gather in mission bay on the Saturday with our toys and have a 2 stroke at the Belgian place. I tried some of their high strength beer a while back a d was almost trrollied. You won't be driving after one of those.

 

Peter. I wish! Im flying out for Sydney Rennsport Motorsport weekend in Sydney 50th Porsche anniversary on the 24th ex Vila so no go for Paul or myself (and any others here tagging along). If Im perfectly honest I doubt I would pull a second leave pass between now and Sept track tour plus planned two month trip in Nov. Shes pretty understanding but not THAT understanding LOL!