Kiwi Carguy

They are in Australia at the moment. Just arranging to get them here.

John McM

I'd be interested to know how the freight shapes up. Australia might be an effective source of larger parts.

Macca

Hey Jamie. Congrats on the wheels. They were a good score. I cant believe Steve held them for you for that long (what was it 2+ years!). Hes a great guy and I'm keeping an eye out for him at Sydney Rennlist - if hes there. Maybe someone coming back from Sydney Rennlist to NZ could help you with transport? They will look great on the 993 mate. Post pictures when you have them mounted...

John McM

Update. Went into Contis to see my car, or at least bits of it. Engine is in good condition for 135,000 km. A couple of cam lobes were oil starved and are best dealt with by replacing the camshafts as are six tappets. While we are in there we will clean the heads, check valve fit, replace valve stem seals, replace big end and main bearings, then reseal. The clutch is near to worn out so will be replaced, but will keep the RS flywheel. Next was the big decision. Given the intended use, Dean and Steve R suggest converting the car to C2. Less weight and less to go wrong. The gearbox would be changed with a C2 one Steve has. Naturally I'm nervous losing what looks like a non abused box for something unknown but Dean reckons it is not a pig in a pole given the source.

I don't want to even think about the cost of this. It's fast turning into a car I will never sell.

Kiwi Carguy

I know mate. It was never meant to be like that (ie I didn't ask him to hold them for me for 24 months) but just how it worked. I just never got back to him, he never got back to me, we were both busy, I didn't have the money when I thought I would and then I emailed him and said do you still have them and a deal was done. I honestly thought he'd say na I sold them long ago.

Hopefully will have a friend bring them back for me. They're a smart looking wheel. I have a mate that works at YHI New Zealand and initially looked at the Enkie's as I could get them cheap but liked these as they are Roocks and a bit different.

peterC2S

John - do you have an estimate of the C4 to C2 conversion, inclusive of g/box and the other drive train mods, ABS brain etc? The issue was also raised in Jason's thread re the planetary gear failure. Key reason not to (other than cost) was that you then end up with a car that was built as a C4 but which you may want to resell (one day) as a C2. Like you say, not a major if you never intend to sell - but most of us do at some stage.

I can't see me doing this conversion but Jason's issue has got me thinking about its suitability for track long term.

John McM

Peter, you need a C2 gearbox to swap for your good C4 box. The figures I saw were ~ $3,500 for that swap portion. It seems steep but I suppose C2 gearboxes have more relative demand than C4. $1,500 for labour etc. Add GST to the mix and you're talking high $5,000. I don't think this is economic unless you're in my position where I have all of the parts out anyway and know I want to use the car on the Track. If I had a normal car with no issues I would run the risk and leave it all alone. Of course, if you have the pins go, then the value of your C4 box to someone else for a swap is greatly reduced. It's all a gamble.

John McM

Not sure how far the Playday got with organisation, but I'll definitely be out there, but in a different capacity. I've just had an invite to run shotgun in a friend's 997 Cup Car. It's likely the only chance I get to ride under 1:20 any time soon....

Macca

John. You are free falling! Looks like Sean and I may be welcoming you to the six figure for old car club sooner than latter!

Good news regards your top/bottom end rebuild. Given (I assume) we are talking around 15k of work here including parts etc have a think and so some Rennlist 964 board research on whether there is anything that could be worth upgrading here. For example a nice set of billet Dogherty Racing 964SS cams will set you back probably less than factory cams so cold be worth considering. Also porting and windage would be worth considering. Whilst you have that block apart ARP studs are definitely worth installing to give you some robustness should you in the future increase redline. Also chain ramps and ancillary gaskets and hardware are all worth checking and likely replacing whilst you have everything unbolted. The ARP studs, gaskets, ramps, porting, billet cams etc are all very modest costs when the engine is open but quite expensive to do later. If I were doing it again i would have spent more time on this.

The gear box replacement seems VERY cheap at around $5k and at that price I can see the attraction. A decent condition 993 gbox runs $10k minimum on its own. The C4 to C2 conversion isnt simple. I doubt Dean has done one before. As someone here mentioned you will likely need to consider ABS ECU etc. It can get very expensive buggering around with the unknown. Id research the crap out of this before having it done. I found myself teaching the local mechanics with many of my modifications not the other way around! Expensive and frustrating and as Pete says residuals will never be the same. I would expect they full conversion to be well over $10k when all is said and done but I havent spent any time researching it. Also if you were to swap boxes you would be silly not to add LSD. LSD on a fast rao/track car IMHO is one of the most worthwhile upgrades you can do and while you have the box out its viable. You can order a Porsche Motorsports LSD from FD Motorsports in US (I think around 1800usd). Fitting is a complex job as it requires getting the lashing etc right but while the box on the ground perfect time and a much coverted track car upgrade which will pay you back in spades. You can buy a used unit off ebay and get Guards to re plate it. Make sure which every you choose look for ramps that will give around 45/65 (accell/decell) and minimum 4 plates for durability.

I suggest too whils the car is without engine get all four shocks sent to the bilstein agent in penrose. Cant recall their name but they can do full shock test and re gas and valve these very modest cost. They are one of the best in the country and highly respected in motorsports circles. If you dont already have top monoballs and front camber plates these are a low cost upgrade that will be critical as your track experience increases and when you consider getting serious. You wont get more than -2 degrees from camber out of the factory set up but youll need closer to -3 when you become competitive and front camber plates will be the only way to pull it off. Youll need ERP or Rennline or Elephant Racing gear but make sure they understand the shock you are using as they need to supply for the shock thread diameter 12mm or 14mm usually.

Putting together a tiight track day package is a system and you have to know how the system works together. Ive made every mistake possible (had shocks fitted twice but only recently acquired monoball hardware which will see a third fitting at $1000 with alignment approx etc!). Its best to do it once and properly or youll end up paying alot more labour and not being satisfied you didnt do it correct first time.

Whilst your shocks are off have your front A arms rebushed and have all your rear suspension arms checked for play or worn bushes. Moniballs may ne good inserts for some of the rear arms but Im not familiar with the 964 set up as I am the 993.

More good work while teh car is on teh hoist would be to get to CCS one weekend and strip off the front bumper and check your oil cooler isnt jammed up with debris. Keeping oil cooled is the mainstay of keepin a track engine running well and reliably. You may later decide like many to add a secondary oil cooler.

Just playing devils advocate for a moment, do think hard about where this is heading cost wise. I love to see others fettling their p-cars dont get me wrong as its lonely out here, but if you just bolted that engine up and sold the C4 you may find it more cost effective to move it one and buy a more suitable platform where all the work has been done. then you can get out and enjoy the track instead of the prolonged shakedown that will always result when modifying what you have, bedding in new gearboxes etc. It all depends on budget and appetite for cost. I built my car as a fast road car and tourer and it has been tuned systematically over 2-3 years and currently performs those duties very very well. Now Im doing more track work I have considered items I never considered for fast road/targa work and its a new round of work. Choosing configuration without upsetting its fast road manners has meant many 10s of hours of research. Getting the suspension right with adjust-ability, tyres, weight all seem to be where its at although I have no intentions of making my car a bridgestone/track only focused machine. If I can hit 1.18s next time Im at HD with Z221s, a bit more experience and dropping the passenger, jack,tools & full tank of gas I ran with last time I will be happy. Once I have more experience under my belt Ill look at the suspension/weight aspects and introduce some changes in 2014 to help shave off a bit more time. The front bump steer kit is also very much front of mind (Im picking up bump steer under hard braking at the end of the front straight due to the cars height).

As I say what Ive learnt from years of playing with the 993 is its all a system and the more you understand what you want to achieve as the outcome and the more input and research you do the better placed you will be to do things in the right order and choose the right products you can build upon without having to do things 2-3 times.

Im sure Sean and others can help in the 964 department. Seans been through much of this and is again embarking on new projects for his car and can attest to much of what Ive covered here and things I have ommitted...

Hope that helps...

kiwi 911

As someone who has spent $80K to now have a non matching numbers car worth $25K - these are wise words.

If I could turn back time, I'd just buy someone else's race car (who people like Steve R told me to do). The only hook would be it has to be road legal so I could drive it to the track.

kiwi 911

Matt - you have gone to ground.............

So which GT3 are you going for?

964X33

John, what do you want for your old gbox (or even just the planetary gear carrier)?

peterC2S

Lol - was thinking the same thing.

peterC2S

We're all still on I think - not sure on numbers. Presume your friend is running in our group?

John McM

I'm not sure who he is running with. He won this year's Porsche Series and blew his gearbox on the last race. That was a 944. Now he's just told me he has a 997 Cup Car and will be at HD on Saturday. He's a racer not a track day person so this must be a fill in day for his new toy. Cheapest Porsche Day I will ever have!