993 Targa

Just a bunch of classic cars going for a drive on the Sat before the show, been running for a while now, although I see they are now calling it the much classier Tour d'Elegance

For variety I think the cars to be seen at the park up point in St Heliers are almost as good as the show itself.

Kiwi Carguy

Totally! Its the only thing I don't like about it. I don't hate it... just think it could have been executed better... cleaner.

I've also wondered with the rear wings why they haven't looked at doing a decent retractable one like the Carrera Gt, P1 etc that retains the clean lines but still provides downforce at speed.

pcarplayer

Interesting. I just watched the GT4 vid @ 4:20 they were talking about how the decision came about to produce the manual gearbox. Preuninger says with a smile on his face :

"...at the same time other projects going, i can not tell you more about it at the moment, but you might have a clue. It was a parallel project which gave us a lot of synergy..."

Could he be talking about the GT3RS? or is there something other skunkworks going on?

Also interesting Preuninger in confidant Porsche will be producing NA cars (probably GT only?) for a "longer while". Excellent!

I've never really desired a Cayman....until now

Macca

Im not sold on the styling. The car copies the 991 GT3 too closely IMO. The fornt bumper could hjave been a bit more unique to the Gt4 and as much as I love the 991 GT3 wheel design it just doesnt look as nice as a 5 lug and I would like to have seen them do something unique here for the GT4. The side scoops look like a nasty tack on already discussed, the stance isnt as nice as the GT3 (i,e, the front wheel fender height and the GT3 style wheels dont have the nice staggered look the rears of the GT3 have). Copying the GT3/turbo mirrors is ok I guess and they look good, but the rear wing does look like a tuner tack on and I think they could have resolved this better. My biggest bugbear from an aesthetic POV is the side scoops (I would have like to have seen the 981 lines here as I think its a defining panel in the new boxter and Cayman) followed by the front bumper and wheels. I know they needed to save some costs but these are redesigns anyway so no money saved (i.e. they arent the exact same parts used on the 991 GT3). Call me picky but as a 991 GT3 owner who is possibly going to place an order for the GT4 in the next week or two, I feel qualified to complain LOL!

Overall the car looks good. It looks very good for the money. For the "hardcore track guys" the 5 lug wheels will be appreciated. However no one I know in RSG in NZ has had issues owning the CL wheels to date. I like the CL look and its supposedly re designed for the 991 GT3 to address any prior weaknesses.

The 3.8L engine from the 991S is nice to have. Its unfortunate they couldnt get it to breath better (which I suspect is teh reason for those scoops to create more of a ram air effect into the intake pleneum as they apparently I am told had issues getting teh same power form this unit than the 400 it makes in the 991S. Its not a redesign just and off teh shelf 9A1 engine and this is a key area they saved money. Howver the 9A1 has proven reliable on track so no issues there. The torque jump is good here over the Cayman GTS and will be noticeable.

The gearing is the key area that concerns those in the know who have driven manual Cayman GTS. This is the big ? mark for the cat IMO. Im sure with enlarged capacity and torque it will prove fine. Again its a direct parts bin component with the addition of a lighter dual mass flywheel which should help it feel a bit more urgent.

The fact its a manual is the key differential for myself and most existing GT3 owners looking at this car. I suspect this car will steal 996/997 GT3 used car sales and peg back appreciation of those models a bit or at least keep them accelerating beyond the 65K GBP/85 USD price mark (new Cayman GT4) where they are hovering now. If PAG extend warranty to track as they have with 991 GT3 they will also win some regular track junkies. Having now lived with a PDK-S transmission I must confess Im not so fussed with a 6 speed manual box (I already have one in the 993 after all) however I think the car would generally compliment the 991 GT3 very well (which is part of teh reason Im a bit dissapointed with the design cues - put the two side by side in the garage and one will look angrier and more puffed up and agreesive than the other and the GT4 will look a bit "mini me" whereas I would like to have seen it look unique).

If Im absolutely honest I prefer the Cayman GTS aesthetically over the GT4. But then again I probably prefer the 991 Targa 4S aesthetically over the GT3!

So, thats my take on it. At Euro/USA pricing its a very well priced (bargain) machine which will be a very enjoyable Sunday fast run, Targa and occasional track vehicle with low running costs etc. Its still a 2 seater Cayman with no PDK so I think its a very niche product probably aimed more squarely towards someone who does not want the cost of buying a 997.2 GT3RS or 991 GT3 to put on the track and someone who has tried the PDK-S in the new 991 GT3 (and soon 991 GT3RS) and finds it disagreeable.


Its interesting working through a spec for the new GT4. I have undergone this excericse and keeping it very basic the price comes in at 78086 Euro (no VAT). Lets say 146K landed. At this price it seems good value. 991 GT3 for the track and touring/DD, GT4 for Targa Tour and fast Sunday drives? Maybe Im just drinking too much Mezcal these days...

Macca

The 991 GT3RS is PDK-S. I suspect all GT3 product will be moving forward. AP makes specific reference with this saying that the competitors are pushing the race this way and PAG must remain competitive. The 991 GT3 & RS are becoming more "super cars" than previously as demonstrated by the 991 GT3 which has pretty much won every comparison objective and subjective right up to 458 Speciale levels (2+x the price). The 991 GT3RS will be the top of the Supercar pile by mid year as it moves things along further and for (relatively) little more money.

The project he is likely referring to is the GT4 series race car for which many believe the road car was built to homologise. There is already a GT4 series in place and the specs are set to include manual transmission I believe (but have not read the specs closely although I have seen them online).

It is believed that the GT3 will remain N/A engine for the current and next iteration but that the next iteration of the RS (991.2 GT3RS) will likely include some KERS type technology (i.e. electric motors to increase torque). This Ive been told is almost a certainty for the 991 GT3 replacement as other manufacturers are already building this development into their 2018 product launch plans including the Japanese Porsche rivals and Ferrari will be making this tech available to lower cost models in the future. Its either that or Turbo charging these are really the two directions the GT3 will go. I suspect the cars will become incrementally more technical from this point on. The 991 GT3 is already an absolute tech fest compared to the outgoing GT3. It has a 9000 rpm engine, PDK-S, RWS, PTV, Dynamic engine mounts, E diff, bugger brakes and better suspension. Its really is a total "game changer" for the GT range. If you can get one and drive it hard for a day - better still on the track and youll see what I mean. It scrambles your brain. The future will become moreso as there appears to be a HP war going on so development will be fast now. The GT4 may well be first & last of its breed (manual & NA)!

964X33

Doug, that's the size I just purchased for the turbo rears.

John McM

The video suggests it will be an alternative to the second hand GT3 for some.

As much as I would love to think this is the car that could take me into the next 5 years I can't live with a manual as my only car after having tasted PDK.

Commuting traffic is bearable in Herman, but the PDK in the R gives me better usability when the traffic is bumper to bumper and is still fun when it opens out.

Herman needs to show some real use over the next year or his days are numbered. Yes, I said that and I suspect Macca is also having the same thoughts with the 993. I wish I'd never ridden shotgun on the Oakura trip.

Macca

John, Im struggling with coming to terms with the same issue myself as you identify. As a one car does everything option I cant really fault the PKS in the GT3.

John McM

Actually, I always suspected I would be entranced by near new Porsches. I just didn't want to be yearning for a $$$ so avoided riding in them.

The sale of the two turbos allowed the purchase of a near new track oriented Porsche at a reasonable price (relatively). I'm now very keen to get some tuition and start to move up the pointy end of the RSG Playdays. I may even get the urge to do the Tour in 2016, when the car feels a bit more used.

That's progress. In the meantime I will throw more money at Herman because I need to play. However it will be modest money. Just enough to keep me ahead of Doug in Lola....

John McM

Harsh comment time. When you walk past the 993 at every juncture you have already made the unconscious decision. It's just a matter of the conscious mind catching up

peterC2S

The last 2 days have taken me an hour and 20 min to get home.... With plenty of time doing repetitive hill starts because traffic's not fast enough to crawl in 1st. Parnell rise from the strand being the killer.

Reminds me of why I initially went looking for pdk!! However for all other driving, incl the morning commute which flows well, the manual is still fine and 100% better than the C4.

Don't forget your 'OMG, OMG, OMG!' Comment from a few weeks back though... There is a reason the 64 has appeal.

John McM

The initial RSG Playdays had some sessions with air cooled well represented, however of late it's mostly water pumpers. While Herman has picked up some beans he won't be bothering the GT3s anytime soon, well in fact ever. Right now I'm champing at the bit to see how Herman goes against Lola, but apart from that it's difficult to see his natural use. Take away the track and commuting and he still has it in spades, except track and commuting is what I do most, except for long trips where the Cayenne is about to tick over 4,000 km in just over 6 weeks. Horses for courses.

Obsessed

Reasonable buy do you think Dave? http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=843696805

Obsessed

I should be there Sunday also, co-piloting the Zanzibar.

Macca

Its an interesting world alright.

The difference between ourselves and the Euro+UK guys vs the North Americans is that they have massive garages, multiple cars per household (the average guy on the 991 GT3 board has 5 cars - each for various duties) cheap insurance, gas and even cheaper cars along with more wealthy and a different philosophy on money and spending it.

This means the average middle class punter living in the UK or NZ can justify only one sports car in his garage and its often the one that takes him to teh office whilst the wife crys fiul and gets her Cayenne or Macan to compete with the other mothers picking up the sprogs from the private school. Harsh yes, but mostly true. Kiwis has spending money on their cars but love property so usually there isnt going to me before than 300K ties up in motor vehicles in the average NZ household even if the property is worth 3MM. Even in the flashest streets I note 2 car garages max (Most of the seaside roads where I saty in Milford have 5MM houses with 40m2 garages and tiny space out front usually occupied by 40K boat.

In the USA the houses are twice as big, worth 1.3rd the amount and you arent cooking with gas till you have a 4 car garage with off street parking for 4 more.

In the UK and Europe their houses are half the same as NZ whilst being 25% more expensive and if you have a single garage you are a King!

So, where is this taking us? To the point that automated transmissions are probably going to rule the world weather we like it or not. I think the Porsche fraternity has been more outspoken about this than most - I dont hear the M3 CSL owners, or the 458 owners (speciale) or the P1 & 918 owners crying foul and making this a huge debate, maybe different clientèle.

In my case its possibly the new toy syndrome. I havent had a new toy for 8 years before I got the GT3 and before when I lived in NZ I would change at least one of the household cars every 12 months! Not quite Dave levels but somewhere between Dave & Chris! Thing is too we are all getting older, priorities are changing and the pub talk bragging rights thing is less important - we get more honest with ourselves as we get honest aye and I reckon we stop pretending so much.

Looking forward to 2015. I see alot of change in garages around here. Its always fun to watch from the poolside so to speak. On that subject I found our apartments internet wasnt working but the spot by the pool here is much better ;-)