2slow2speed

Simple, they are targeting a different demographic of customers. Relying on Baby Boomers who will no longer be interested or able to actually drive the next generation Corvette is not a good long term strategy. They need to bring in a new generation of potential customers.

Guess change is hard for older folks.. Like keeping the 911 RR and making the RSR MR, pure marketing to keep people in their own little bubble.

TheMystro

So you think GM is abandoning their core base with the all new design? These guys are pretty hardcore fans and the optics look bad and unfocused toward the long time Vette owner. In a perfect GM world they would have two Corvettes in where they could experiment with all new car and have a historical "classic" for the faithful. This would be much like Porsche did with 911 alternatives.

2slow2speed

That would require keeping 2 sets of factories open, 2 R&D teams working, logistical nightmare and not cost effective. The total number of potential customers for sports cars is limited.

The die hard fans will either adapt or move on to other brands or just keep buying older vette's and restoring them. Kind of the same thing that happened with the hard core air cooled/raw 911 fans, they buy older cars and restore them or they adapt and buy the modern 911.

CaymanCarver

The 2015 Cayman is my first. But like the C7, I researched the living crap out of the car before buying. Was originally focused on a 2012 Cayman S.. ended up with the 2015 Base Cayman.

I focused on the Cayman because it checked off all the boxes I wanted in the C7 PLUS it was a mid-engine with a 14 year year history of development. I'll take that over the first time new tech of the C8 any day.
Pretty sure I'm well informed about the maintenance costs of the car.. I've done the 4 year service interval myself so I've have already saved thou$ands.
I knew the DIY approach was going to be possible going-in, before I bought the car.

I've been driving my Cayman PDK for two months and I absolutely love it. I can easily say the PDK "makes the car" more than I had anticipated/imagined.
N' again a huge well documented history for the PDK transmission.

Can't make any such claims about the C8 any time soon.

"No longer true.."?!! Its an axiom, a law of physics, one true gospel you can count on.. that applies to everything in life.
But somehow that doesn't apply to GM.. that's laughable!

Geez you shills for GM/Chevrolet gotta get your stories straight. Either its "Its an all new high tech supercar" from the GM sanctioned marketing hype OR ITS NOT.
Sounds like you and the other shills are playing all sides of the fence.. talking out of any side of the mouth.

"All they did was move the engine behind the driver's head. All the other tech is current standard fare"
You can't be serious! You're being paid to spread this nonsense on the internet right now, right?


Oh now its under $70K?! Well I guess that's progress.

Right away you're perpetuating an unrealistic / unsubstantiated B.S. price for a C8-V8 that you don't know will perform anywhere close to the R8-V10.
Just like all the other shills on the internet.

The Z51 + the "0-60 Z51 Performance Package" is going to be $74K (1LT) - $84K (3LT). $74K - $84K.
So first you gotta get over this "under $70K" crap.

You've only been at it for 6 months? Have you decided on exactly which year you want to buy and why? Which options? What to watch out for?
Then search everyday till you find the right one. When you do find the right one, strike quickly.
Don't be surprised if it takes 1 year and 6 months.

Like others, I expressed a shared opinion. One that differs from yours and the rest of the Corvette fan boys.
On the Corvette forum they literally told me "I couldn't ask questions and share negative observations until after I bought the car". Damn it was probably you!

The 3LT interior of the Grandsport did not feel nice to me. Felt like I was surrounded by cheap plastic crap.
The interior of my Cayman is far-and-away BETTER than the 3LT Grandsport. I don't think they compare.. not even a little bit.

"Many of us here".. said the man with 28 posts on this forum.

Spoken like a true C8 shill. Talk about "willfull ignorance". Or is it a willful misinformation campaign?
I have a strong sense you're starting to lose control of the message.

Yeah according to the marketing material and the hype.. the all new C8 is a real frankenstein.

Where is access to the engine? All the pictures of the top of the engine show its almost entirely blocked by the upper frame.
How do you access the front of the engine?
How do you access the sides of the engine?
How much of the engine can you access from underneath?

The answers to these questions will provide some indication of the labor required for maintenance and repair.
I knew all the answers to these questions for my Cayman before I bought it.

If you got some answers I'd love to hear 'em.


So now you want to compare the "interior" of a 2008 street legal race car, that has an eleven year long proven track record (and I mean THE TRACK and the DRAG STRIP) to the C8?
Now you're just being an a$$hole!

It does have a Tremec 6060 6 speed manual transmission.
So I sure hope Tremec doesn't get any bruises because of this new venture into the DCT for the C8.
For good reason, this has a lot of people very nervous right now.

Still no words regarding AFM on the C8. Not from you, that's for sure.

When the marketing hype has every shill on the internet parroting phrases like "0-60 in under 3 seconds for under $60K", GM has set up the scenario for a series of perfect "Rude Awakening" storms.

Rude awakening #1:

"0-60 Z51 Performance Package" $8K - $12K THOUSAND DOLLARS on top of the Z51 Package.

I'll be sure to post more "Rude Awakenings" as the FACTS become available.

Caustic

I wouldn't say abandoning their core base, but the average age is 61. Part of the reason it is big is because of storage, their core audience wants it. They put emphasis on the central tunnel of the car, the backbone, to strengthen the chassis. Doing that allowed them to lower the step in from the side rails on the car. They tried to keep their original audience in mind.

But its true, there is a real possibility that GM will alienate the core buyer, by trying to find a younger audience. You are right, in a perfect world, GM would have a front engine and mid-engine Corvette. A lot of people thought GM was going to continue to have a front engine vette, and give the mid-engine platform to Cadillac, but that obviously didn't happen.

2slow2speed

Sadly as Porsche found out, there can only be one king of the hill, the 911 is king and everything else comes below it (actually the Macan/Cayenne are the profit center the subsidized every other program) but I digress.

Caustic

You seem angry.

SoCal-NSX

Shills???

I'm no shill, just a guy who's never owned a Porsche or a Vette, but can easily detect a better deal...

you can try to bang in the price of the z51 pkg etc, but at the end of the day they're still cheaper than the S pkg etc...

i love the Cayman , it is a great car, but it just can't compare to the looks and especially the numbers of the C8

2020 base Cayman
price $57,900
300 HP
280 tq
0-60 4.8 seconds

2020 base Corvette
price $59,900
490 HP
430 tq
0-60 @ 3.0 seconds

those are insane differences for $2000


this is coming from someone who has been obsessed with the 981 Cayman the last several months...... I just can't see a fair comparison. Unless a smoking deal comes up on a 981 Cayman S(which will probably start to happen now that the C8 is here) I will probably wait it out for the C8 instead.

just this shills opinion though

2slow2speed

Glad that you were able to get one of the DFI engined cars.

PAG left a lot of folks holding the bag on the 986/996 when the engines had faulty RMS or IMS, those cars required new engines, some owners decided to just sue PCNA, and a partial settlement was reached for a subgroup of owners.

I had an ex-coworker that had a 986 Boxster S, the RMS went and there was no recourse for him, he sold the car to a scrapyard, another friend had a 996.1 the RMS went and fortunately he was one of the chosen ones that PCNA decided to cover for a brand new engine.

987.1 cars had it's own set of issues related to oil starvation, Air Oil Separator, Power Steering Pumps, IMS as well. Some were covered under warranty some were not covered.

996/997GT3/GT2/Turbo Mezger engines had issues with the coolant hoses coming loose due to only adhesive been used to attach them to the engine block and spraying coolant under the car causing accidents both on the streets and the track, PCNA never covered any of the work or has issued a recall for fear of been sued.

Currently PCNA/PAG does not seem to acknowledge failing strut towers on GT4's, leaving the owners holding the bill for repairs ($20K+ repairs).

So just feel fortunate that you were not stuck with a bad lemon, many Porsche customers have been left holding the proverbial bag.

wizee

This is all true, but Porsche has never been remotely close to Chevy/Ford/Dodge in dollars per horsepower. Compare a 2014 C7 Corvette to an equivalently priced 2014 base Cayman. The same story applies.

At base price without options, only advantage of the 2014 base Cayman over the 2014 base C7 is lighter weight and agility. Neither have the greatest interior, and the 2014 C7 would have far more power and torque, and would spank a base Cayman for lap times.

Porsche has always been a premium brand - you have to pay extra to get some nicer details. Back in 2014, some people bought Caymans instead of Corvettes because they preferred the smaller size and weight, agility, or nicer interior when specced with the optional leather interior, and they valued those over outright power, torque, and lap times.

If you want Corvette level or better performance, and also the interior niceties, lighter weight, styling etc, you can get it from Porsche, you just have to pay for it, with a GT4/GT3/GT3RS/Turbo/GT2RS etc.

If you want the fastest car for a given price, Porsche never has and never will be for you.

The slow depreciation of GT cars (at least with low-ish mileage) means the costs of Porsche GTx ownership are not too different despite the higher MSRP of Porsche, but they’ve never been close on outright performance per purchase price.

CaymanCarver

Sorry, meant no offense.

Shills are easy to spot and there's a number of 'em on this thread. Obviously, you're not a shill.

Dude, you should be in the ~$45K range for a 981. Upper $40's for the "S". If you're in the $58K range on a 981 Cayman.. better be a 2016 S.

I got my 2015 Base Cayman w/PDK & CPO for < $40K!.
Searched long and hard, but when it hit the market in my own backyard, drove her home straight away. I knew it was the right car.
That's what extensive RESEARCH will do for you.

And she's a major score. Don't hesitate cause of the Base model. Drive the PDK in manual+sport mode, rev it out and the car is f'ing QUICK!

Research the car and the market and then wait and watch. Be prepared to let some cars go by.. but learn from those events. then strike.

Thanks man.

Yeah, I was well aware of all the 987.1 issues. Its why I started by focusing on the 2012 / 987.2 Cayman. Wanted to avoid the IMS all together.
However, you can grab a 987.1 for CHEAP.. then track the hell out of it!

Thanks for bringing that up.. it's a great testimony to the advanced evolution of the Porsche cars. Those issues were originally encountered from 2005 - 2009'ish.

CaymanCarver

Ya know what though, my Base Cayman shares a number of traits with my Viper.

• They weigh about the same. The Viper is maybe 200lbs heavier.
• They handle a lot a-like. Super tight. Very responsive. Very grippy. The Viper feels a little more grippy but the tires are FAT 275 Front / 345 Rear.
  My Cayman has a limited amount of pitch in a wide turn at speed, but I'm sure stiffer anti-sways will fix that and make it feel more like the Viper.
• They both need time to warm up to operating temp before they're ready to go-go-go. They're not themselves when they're cold.
• They launch the same way. I can get fantastic launches in both of 'em without spinning the wheels in a fit.
• Revs! Hit 'em with some revs and oh my!!

I consider the Viper FAST with crazy Power.
I consider the Cayman Lightning QUICK.
Between them, the handling really isn't all that different.

What a perfect pair!

d00d

I'm keeping the GT4 for when I feel like shifting, but I'm intrigued by the C8.
It's NA, MR, and has a physical dipstick!
I just spent hours on and off over the last few days changing my oil.
Eventually found a service manual pdf that has a flow chart, summary is that the oil has to be over 158F and the hatch closed for one minute, to be able to be read.
So the engine needs to be run to check the level, then how many liters is enough to safely run it?
Not a good system.

Hopefully the Z06 will be a NA version of the Blackwing, larger than 4.2L, read somewhere 5.5L.

STG

https://www.motor1.com/news/362038/m...o-performance/

STG

https://www.motor1.com/news/361998/2...h-center-show/