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I just realized that I do have some real data on this, via data logs from the M-Engineering dongle. Spot checking a few pulls, it is indeed about a second from stabbing the throttle to achieving full boost. It takes about half a second to get “close” (75% of ~peak), and another half second to get the rest of the way there with the M-Eng stage 2 tune on my GTS. I have no clue how much of that is programmed in versus being as fast as the turbo can manage to build the boost, but there’s some real data for you.
Maybe one day I’ll do a log on the stock map and see if the lag is comparable. If someone with a base carrera and the M dongle is willing to do their part, that might motivate me a bit more…
Very interesting. To me the car feels kinda like a 2 stroke, with a very recognizable
power band. I wouldn’t ever describe that as turbo lag, because when it is in its power band 5k plus It feels extremely linear. If you are at 3k rpm it’s a relative dog till the rpm climbs. Do you see a lag when going down the road in manual mode 5k + stab the throttle? Thats data I would like to see. Take the downshift and power band out of the equation.
You brag because you paid a 100k ADM. I brag because I paid MSRP. We are not the same.
I’ve never met someone who bragged about their large ADM. Only people who either lie about their ADM bc they are embarrassed, or just tell the truth like it is. You must hang out with some crappy people.
Very interesting. To me the car feels kinda like a 2 stroke, with a very recognizable
power band. I wouldn’t ever describe that as turbo lag, because when it is in its power band 5k plus It feels extremely linear. If you are at 3k rpm it’s a relative dog till the rpm climbs. Do you see a lag when going down the road in manual mode 5k + stab the throttle? Thats data I would like to see. Take the downshift and power band out of the equation.
The data I'm looking at is manual mode around 4500rpm, 3rd gear. The tune may add some lag, considering it needs to build to a higher peak boost. But I suspect it's not a huge amount of extra lag -- maybe another tenth of a second or two?
Didn't you also say no one would notice the steering difference between a GT3 with double wishbone and a Carrera with struts on the street? Sorry bud, your opinions aren't exactly trustworthy.
Yes I did. You would need to press the car to its limits on a track to appreciate the difference. The difference you see on street is merely due to quicker steering rack ratios, etc, NOT the DWB setup itself.
I've driven a GT3 and S on track side by side at PEC, and obviously there is a BIG difference. Needless to say, if you're a track person, you should go with GT3.
Good luck to anyone buying a hybrid Porsche. My ‘22 GTS now forget bass and treble settings everyday now after being fine for 6 months. Again.
I get those little gripes. I have issues simply having my RS6 or Cayenne recognize my phone and connect properly in the morning...
Curious, do you have the Bose or Burmester sound system?
But who is going to pay MSRP for a 2024 S (for example), when the 2025 Base is being sold alongside it, which will be a year newer and have a closer performance differential to the S than before? Tough sell.
A lot of people would prefer the S 2024 over the Base 2025.
The 2025 base will not have the significant increase in power that you might expect. According to the latest information, the power increase will go from 385 to 395 at most, compared to the 2024 CS, which has 450.
Moreover, the advantages of the S over the Base 992 include:
The S has PTV+ while the Base only has a limited-slip differential.
The S can be configured with RAS and PDCC.
The turbos in the S are larger than those in the Base. (Pic is taken from a post by @NickM )
The S has a 6-piston caliper with 350mm disc brakes, while the Base has only a 4-piston caliper with 330mm disc brakes.
The 992.1 S can be configured with a manual transmission, base cannot, you have to wait for the T, if there will be a 2025 one.
I would choose the 2024 S, especially if the price increase on May 28 is over 10%, which is reason #6.
However, Porsche will be out of their mind to create this gap in specifications and power between the 2025 Models, Base 395 compared to the S with 510. In my opinion they should give the Base the same Turbos in the 2024 S and same power with pure ICE and larger brakes and PTV+.
A lot of people would prefer the S 2024 over the Base 2025.
The 2025 base will not have the significant increase in power that you might expect. According to the latest information, the power increase will go from 385 to 395 at most, compared to the 2024 CS, which has 450.
Moreover, the advantages of the S over the Base 992 include:
The S has PTV+ while the Base only has a limited-slip differential.
The S can be configured with RAS and PDCC.
The turbos in the S are larger than those in the Base. (Pic is taken from a post by @NickM )
The S has a 6-piston caliper with 350mm disc brakes, while the Base has only a 4-piston caliper with 330mm disc brakes.
The 992.1 S can be configured with a manual transmission, base cannot, you have to wait for the T, if there will be a 2025 one.
I would choose the 2024 S, especially if the price increase on May 28 is over 10%, which is reason #6.
However, Porsche will be out of their mind to create this gap in specifications and power between the 2025 Models, Base 395 compared to the S with 510. In my opinion they should give the Base the same Turbos in the 2024 S and same power with pure ICE and larger brakes and PTV+.
it’s a great strategy by Porsche to keep the base at 395 and the S at 510hp. The price gap is currently around $15K, Porsche might now make it $20-$25K price gap and has effectively pushed people to the S and easily increased margins per vehicle sold.
Base might remain around $120K starting and the S might move to $140-$145K.
it’s a great strategy by Porsche to keep the base at 395 and the S at 510hp. The price gap is currently around $15K, Porsche might now make it $20-$25K price gap and has effectively pushed people to the S and easily increased margins per vehicle sold.
Base might remain around $120K starting and the S might move to $140-$145K.
Particularly true when factoring in that the base used to be comparable to the price of a Cayman GTS.
Now, the base is the cheapest option for an ICE sports car with Porsche. Less competition / cannibalization so they don't really have to do much to the base to sell it.
They Turbocharged the entire range then detuned their power output by 25% just so they could charge a massive premium for the most powerful models that actually carry a “Turbo” badge.
They produced an EV that doesn’t even have an engine and badged the most highly tuned model as a “Turbo” just so they could sit it at the top of the range and charge a premium for it.
Now people are excited about a “Manual Turbo” when we’ve had manual turbos since the 991.2 gen. What you’re excited about is a manual car with a “Turbo” badge on the back.
The world is full of the buyers they love, all waving their cash. Lol.
It's called product planning. If, as a manufacturer of any products, you're not doing this you're leaving money on the table every day. Everyone does it.
Time, Target Position Throttle, and Manifold Absolute Pressure
I believe you can get this data using a generic OBD II dongle, such as the OBD Link MX+, as well. I get this through my AiM Solo2 DL through OBD II on track, on my F87 M2. Though. I’ve never really tried to use that data to calculate lag, I will say that on the M2, as well as my previous TT RS, I am able to get to WOT a little before I should when coming out of corners, as it takes a few tenths (or more) to get into boost. Hardly noticeable on the street though as these cars have displacement, high compression ratios and a ton of torque over 2000 rpm. On my GTS, if I’m over 2000 rpm, I don’t experience anything but “pull” when rolling into the throttle.
I assert that modern, high displacement, high compression ratio, DI motors, with high speed electronics for control, are so good that you only notice / feel the lag if you drive it back to back with a NA car. If the e-turbo reduces this gap even further, it would be pretty sweet.
05-22-2024, 10:40 PM
