Schn3ll

Facts don't care about feelings. -EDIT-

PorscheObsessed

oh no he won’t! -EDIT-

Schn3ll

seek help

zachr

Oh the irony...

At this point I'm beginning to think you all want Porsche to eliminate / seriously limit manual availability just so you can complain about how making sure my future kids and grandkids have a habitable planet is ruining your hobby. At what point do you say your hobby isn't cars anymore, replaced by b*tching on message boards?

zachr

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...g-lied-to/amp/

Almost all the arguments against EVs rely on assumptions that, if they are true today, won't be true forever. They are objectively better than gas cars for the environment even if the electricity used to power them is generated with coal. Eliminating gas vehicles for personal transportation is both silly and extremely unlikely (regardless of what California says about banning gas cars starting in 2035 or whatever), but once the charging infrastructure is abundant and reliable there will be few good reasons to keep gas cars.

And yes, personal transportation is not the largest contributor to climate change. But every sector is seeing transformations to minimize climate impact — cars are just the most visible every day. It's unfair to the people working on everything from nuclear energy to lab grown meat to criticize EVs as if that's all we're doing to combat climate change.

Fullyield

Good article. Thx for posting/sharing.

zachr

First off, cobalt is the material with significant humanitarian concerns in its mining supply chain, not lithium. Secondly, this falls under the "won't be true forever" category.

1) we haven't had a need for such substantial amounts of lithium and cobalt until the last 3-5 years. New mining locations and techniques, as well as recycling of materials, will improve the outlook.
2) Tesla has been using cobalt-free batteries for a couple of years now. Solid state batteries are also on the way and will change what materials are needed.

I get that there's no point in trying to convince you in particular -- you don't care about the kids mining cobalt for your phone or laptop battery. You just want to b*tch on a message board. I still think it's important to counter this bullsh*t though, because there might be some less-entrenched folks lurking who will hopefully benefit from seeing the bigger picture. Unfortunately, the bullsh*t asymmetry principle makes your job a lot easier than mine.

Leadfootone

Just wondering where you got this info from?

nyca

The EU's current high perch in auto manufacturing, is going to grow ever smaller once EVs come to dominate (through mandates or customer preferences). China, Vietnam, and Tesla are going to dominate the auto industry once EVs advance. EVs allow autos to become more like commodities - the perceived value of the luxury brands is going to drop considerably because there is less to differentiate them from other EVs. Anyone can put a nice interior in a car. I think the established automakers know they are eventually in big trouble. They embraced these government mandates for EVs, invested billions, and now find they can't sell the ones they are producing and can't produce them as cheaply as China/Vietnam/Tesla. The handwriting is on the wall for Ford, GM, Stellantis - they will be the first to go, I expect government bailouts for them in 5-7 years. The same thing is going to happen in Japan & Germany, although Toyota seems to see that an all EV world wipes them out and is going forward with a next generation of ICE engine technology with all hybrid solutions. Take note of how the climate change crowd and their media allies, hate Toyota now, which is one reason I recently bought a Lexus. The rest of the industry seems to be cancelling their ICE development cycles - they will be sorry they did that.

R N M

For all the folks touting EVs must not live in cold climates. The freezing temperatures that we are having now in NY have really shown how EVs are not ready to be the only solution. Everything is frozen and another 5-10in is expected on Friday with temperatures staying in mid 20s.

zachr

🙄
1) Cool strawman but no one said EVs should be the only cars you can buy right now with today's technology and infrastructure limitations
2) I struggle to see how even a 25% reduction in range on an EV with the typical 250-300 miles of range is legitimately problematic when the vast majority of people with EVs charge at home and drive dozens of miles per day at most.

It's easy to find edge cases, so congrats on picking at low hanging fruit.

malba2366

EVs only work well if you can charge at home, and you have some understanding of rage limitations - ie. when it is really cold out, plug in your car when you get home daily and set the charge percent to 100. I live in NY, and have not had any issues in the cold over the past few days getting to and from work using an Audi E tron. I would not touch an EV if I had a very long commute, or I did not have access to 240v charging on a daily basis.

zachr

Back to the topic at hand... let's do some math here. 50k 911s delivered in 2023 per another thread. Let's say 30k of them had a manual as an option (so 20k were Base, TT/S, GT3 RS, etc – no stick available). So 12k 911s were sold with a stick in '23.

Let's say it costs Porsche $250,000,000* to engineer a new manual transmission that can accommodate an e-motor like the current PDK does, or otherwise enables a good implementation of a hybridized manual. Even amortizing that cost across only the manual 911s over 8 years at the current take rate and delivery rate, that's $2,500 per car ($250m / 96k cars). That's nothing. Last time Porsche tried to eliminate the manual they couldn't move GT3s to save their lives. It was a deeply unpopular decision. Maybe they'll do it again...but if anyone is going to avoid making that mistake again, it will be Porsche.

*I don't know a ton about this industry, but I'd also bet that $250m is a preposterous amount of money and the real number would be half that. A team of 50 very highly compensated engineers for two years, $50 million worth of equipment, and tens of thousands a day in operating costs wouldn't touch that figure in total expenditure.

For those saying efficiency regulations will require ditching the stick... why do you think Porsche is making the Macan and 718 EV-only? They'll have plenty of headroom in their fleet emissions calculations to allow 20% of 911s to sip a few more gallons of fuel when their best selling products are all electric.

malba2366

They will not be selling that many manual cars. First, those take rates are for the US market only, take rate is much lower in the rest of the world, for example manuals are not even offered in China which is the 2nd or 3rd largest market, depending on if you consider the EU one market. Second the GT3 makes up an inordinate percentage of the manuals in the US, and that is a different transmission and probably not bybrid.. Last generation 70% of GT3 sales in the US were manual (30% globally).

Fullyield

I wish you were correct zachr. One of the reasons I bought my 992S is so I could get a non-hybrid ICE with a MT while they were still available. I saw the handwriting on the wall when Porsche specc’d a modified 8 speed PDK transmission for the 992 so it could accommodate an electric motor in future models. I took this to implicitly mean all future Porsche hybrids must be PDKs. I hope I am wrong.