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Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fum thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
My 2 cents....which I can assure you is worth less than that....
Brett, you're one of a kind. Thanks for this post, makes so much sense
I spoke to Loeber Motors in Chicago and asked me for only... $20K, and the reason for the markup is "Its not fair to the dealership not to get a piece of the action when the buyer will get the car and flip it for $50K-100K"
My response "good luck, I will call the other dealers and you just lost all my business"
I had a fantastic experience buying my previous car from Loeber and I'll take a dealer that's honest to my face over a lot of what else is out there. Regardless, 20k is hardly extortionate in this market and they lost their *** selling previous GT cars at MSRP.
Porsche Exchange told me months in advance that as soon as the car was released they'd start build the list. I didn't put a deposit anywhere and contacted them moments after the GT4 unveiling only to be told - "no." Milwaukee dealers? Good guys working at both of them but good luck getting a call, they might get 1 or 2 cars per year.
As far as my experience goes Loeber is the best dealer in the Milwaukee/Chicago area with the least amount of broken promises / BS and it looks like your experience echoes that.
A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fum thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
Good post Brett.
However, as I explained in the previous post, having sold zero 918 does not get hurt more than a dealer which sold five 918s. It actually affects every dealer in the same, because it is a pool dilution. PCNA receives the total amount of number of production from PAG Germany for production between July 2017 and December 2017 (Let's say 500). Then PCNA subtracts the total amount of 918 VIP customers and VVIP customers which expressed they wanted one in the first week the product debut (lets say 200 of them want it). PCNA will then subtract then 200 from the 500 (300 allocations left for all pool allocation across all dealers).
PCNA then distributes the remaining allocations based on % sales of model, compliance, region, sales goals, violations. This % will remain the same % whether there are 918 program or not (but the pool is now smaller because of initial allocated to 918 customers and VVIP customers). However, the smaller pool will affect a dealer which sold 5 918s to a dealer which sold zero 918 the same way. Sure, a dealer with more 918 sold will see more physical GT3 going through the dealer, but they are not for your clients. It is there only because the 918 customer expressed they want the GT3 allocated, if they said they weren't interested, that car won't be allocated to that dealer anyways, and it cannot be sold to another client on the interest list. If however a sales did sell the 918 to a customer in the first place, then that sales may reap the benefit of delivering all its special allocations in the future, but of course as you know that is up to the GM and GSM's own discretion. A GM or GSM of a dealer will probably not let you take standard commissions on 918 customer's 911R, RS, etc if they are not your original client just because they needed a walkthrough delivery, since its a lot of gross.
I agree that PTS should be higher priced and they are increasing the price, you'll see. PTS cannot be made year around as some people already know because they need to bleed out the production line and make all the PTS at the same time. The windows are small and it really slows down the productivity of the factory a lot (which leads to even less GT cars). Unless they build a completely different assembly line for PTS only, that's probably not going to happen.
Interesting product wish list btw. I share your concern on the models, as you'll see soon enough, with Panamera base, 4, e-Hybrid, 4S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S e-hybrid, and having variations of executive long wheelbase and Sport turismo version, you will have a lot of fun trying to get your clients the exact models you want. Why stop there though? haha Why take out GTS on cayman and boxster but not on 911? 911 can just have 420hp standard with GTS power package with options for all the kits and stuffs.
Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fun thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
My 2 cents....which I can assure you is worth less than that....
I spoke to Loeber Motors in Chicago and asked me for only... $20K, and the reason for the markup is "Its not fair to the dealership not to get a piece of the action when the buyer will get the car and flip it for $50K-100K"
My response "good luck, I will call the other dealers and you just lost all my business"
$20k is right at the edge of reasonable for this car IMO, as it's at the upper end of where I think Porsche should have priced the car to begin with. $50k+ is nuts and I don't think people are going to be willing to pay it. I think the dealers out there hawking allocations at $50k over are going to hear mostly crickets and they'll be dropping those asks down very quickly. I expect they'll start moving in the $20-25k range.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
These days my SA looks like he's had all the fun sucked out of him by Macan buyers cross shopping with $45,000 Japanese SUVs and wanting him to sell a 4 banger at 12% off sticker. I think he'd be tickled if he got a happy meal on most days.
My wife came into the room looking at me strange the other night, after she heard me talking to the TV...
Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fun thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
The only problem, Brett, is that this makes TOO much sense!
It does make you wonder why they waste production resources on poor sellers like the cayman or base targa when they could divert those resources to making more GT cars.
Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fun thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
My 2 cents....which I can assure you is worth less than that....
I smell a rat.
No sales idiot has this kind of interest in the product he sells or the insight to care. Pretending to know the entire 911 range and to suggest to improve it LOL LOL!!
Creative but totally unrealistic
If such a sales idiot actually was real , I would surely call him first, specially if I needed a plane-jane non GT car for the wife.
He'd probably tell me what I don't need and not f@ck up the order. Hell he may make the whole experience such that I am not vomiting in my mouth wile listening to the verbal diarrhea about the car they have in the showroom..
If I was lucky enough to get a GT car at MSRP, I'd pay MSRP for her Macan as well.
However, as I explained in the previous post, having sold zero 918 does not get hurt more than a dealer which sold five 918s. It actually affects every dealer in the same, because it is a pool dilution. PCNA receives the total amount of number of production from PAG Germany for production between July 2017 and December 2017 (Let's say 500). Then PCNA subtracts the total amount of 918 VIP customers and VVIP customers which expressed they wanted one in the first week the product debut (lets say 200 of them want it). PCNA will then subtract then 200 from the 500 (300 allocations left for all pool allocation across all dealers).
PCNA then distributes the remaining allocations based on % sales of model, compliance, region, sales goals, violations. This % will remain the same % whether there are 918 program or not (but the pool is now smaller because of initial allocated to 918 customers and VVIP customers). However, the smaller pool will affect a dealer which sold 5 918s to a dealer which sold zero 918 the same way. Sure, a dealer with more 918 sold will see more physical GT3 going through the dealer, but they are not for your clients. It is there only because the 918 customer expressed they want the GT3 allocated, if they said they weren't interested, that car won't be allocated to that dealer anyways, and it cannot be sold to another client on the interest list. If however a sales did sell the 918 to a customer in the first place, then that sales may reap the benefit of delivering all its special allocations in the future, but of course as you know that is up to the GM and GSM's own discretion. A GM or GSM of a dealer will probably not let you take standard commissions on 918 customer's 911R, RS, etc if they are not your original client just because they needed a walkthrough delivery, since its a lot of gross.
I agree that PTS should be higher priced and they are increasing the price, you'll see. PTS cannot be made year around as some people already know because they need to bleed out the production line and make all the PTS at the same time. The windows are small and it really slows down the productivity of the factory a lot (which leads to even less GT cars). Unless they build a completely different assembly line for PTS only, that's probably not going to happen.
Interesting product wish list btw. I share your concern on the models, as you'll see soon enough, with Panamera base, 4, e-Hybrid, 4S, GTS, Turbo, Turbo S e-hybrid, and having variations of executive long wheelbase and Sport turismo version, you will have a lot of fun trying to get your clients the exact models you want. Why stop there though? haha Why take out GTS on cayman and boxster but not on 911? 911 can just have 420hp standard with GTS power package with options for all the kits and stuffs.
Product list will get even longer soon
I agree with your pool assessment except not selling 1 918 meant 0 911 R's for my 7 orders that I had on file and I am sure more future products I will not get a sniff at. No need for a GTS Cayman or Boxster if you have year round GT4/Spyder availability. I would love to see the 911 GTS make more than the 450hp btw to separate itself a bit more from the S. Raising the price on PTS should help make it more available for clients but offering throw back colors I think is a better option that can easily be handled year round with planning.
04-04-2017, 05:54 PM
