SToronto

I've had a deposit for a little over a year. They have lists and sell at MSRP. Do they go down the lists verbatim, doubt it. One thing I've noticed is that US folks seem to know where on the list they stand? Real or not, who knows but you seem to know a number. I can't seem to get that detail.

hf1

"A generation ago, Porsche tried to replace its U.S. dealerships with a new distribution network. To the company's surprise, the dealers' legal muscle prevailed."

"Legal muscle".
What would we poor car buyers do without the dealers lobbying state laws that protect us from greedy corporations such as PAG whose only goal is to take as much of our hard earned money as possible?

STG

You guys must like going around in circles. The ONLY solution is MORE supply or LESS demand.

With limited supply and high demand, there will ALWAYS be inflated prices. Either by dealers or FLIPPERS. Even many "enthusiasts" would become FLIPPERS for the right $$$$.

The PORSCHE marketing dept doesn't set prices. The accounting dept does, and crunches the profitability. The GT cars ARE profitable. Just like every other model. PAG isn't stupid and is best at making money.

Our new cleaning lady knows a thing or two, but isn't 100% accurate.

hf1

There'd be no flippers in a direct Dutch auction. You want one of the 3000 allocations on offer? Then you bid a price for it alongside everyone else -- flippers, dealers, and their aunts, too. If you bid high enough, you got it. If you didn't, you didn't. All intermediaries and scammers who don't contribute anything to anyone will be out of business and all profits will go to the one who made the car you wanted: PAG. And the best part: There'll be no 'inflated' prices -- just prices at which the market clears. What's not to like?

STG

I think would set a dangerous precedent and consumers would get gouged in the long run. Why not make everything more limited with higher margins?? Less risk for manufacturers and higher profits.

In theory an eBay no reserve model, but not a long term solution. Works for used eBay stuff, not for $150K+++ new cars.

Why can't anyone comprehend that PCNA uses these cars as pawns with part of that being the dealers being able to sell for big profits as a reward??

Archimedes

I've said this all along. If I was a dealer this is how I would sell my high demand cars to my customers. I'd establish a price factor, starting at about 130% of sticker and dutch auction them down until they all sold. Totally fair and transparent, no flip opportunity for buyers. This would get the cars in the hands of the people who really want to own them and drive them. Unfortunately, PCNA could never do this due to dealer laws, but a single dealer could.

Archimedes

But this is not the way the car business works and you know it. The vast majority of cars, of all makes, sell for under MSRP. Even Porsches. I've never paid sticker on a Porsche and have never known anyone who has for anything but a GT car. MSRP cuts both ways.

EMpunker

If I were Porsche, I'd either produce more units to sell or I'd raise the MSRP.

Why let the dealerships enjoy all of those hefty mark-ups?

It seems like they're leaving money on the table.

orthojoe

No sh*t that's not the way it works with car dealers. Who said otherwise? It's because dealers are scumbags. I'm all for the Tesla model of sales. I don't care if I can't bargain for a lower price anymore. Bargaining is a waste of time for me and I hate games. I also hate seeing people getting ripped off by dealers and the lack of transparency because of the smoke/mirrors/games. End it all. Buy direct. Keep it simple.

hf1

Sure, PAG could produce and sell a single car with a 99% profit margin, 100 cars with 50% margin, 3000 with 20% margin, or 10,000 with 10% margin. Whichever number makes them the most total $ in profits, that's the number they will sell. There's no such thing as 'gouging' in a transparent and free market. If you don't like a price, you don't buy which is how you lower demand at that price.

eBay is not the only auction model. There are auction models developed and used for multiple equivalent items (shares of stock, bonds, car allocations). Google Dutch auctions. The $150k price is irrelevant. Billions of $'s in bonds are sold via auctions all the time

They can still use the cars as pawns or whatever else they want without having to pay the dealers anything.

shaytun

+1

chaosoul

The marketing department determines the MSRP of the car based on the accounting departments input (on cost of manufacture etc). Pricing is everything for cars because how every car is priced against competitors, previous sales number, and people's acceptance of prices based on marketing research. That is why cars like Macan S was priced first year at 49,900$ right under 50k, and to be market as a Porsche under 50k. The accounting department crunches the number and doesn't just so happens by chance it was exactly 100$ under 50k. If it was up to only the accounting department the pricing would be like 48,784.32$ msrp or 50,237.02$ msrp based on cost, projected revenue % etc.


If you have been to one of the Porsche marketing studies, you will know that Porsche marketing research takes competitor's pricing very seriously, for 991.2, they let consumers drive the M4, Corvette C7, AMG GTS, Jaguar F type compared to Carrera and Carrera S. Then the marketing department asks each consumer what they though each car should be priced compare to the 911, much higher? much lower? or the same?


The total cost of the car also depends on the marketing cost needed for the car. For example, after accounting determines the cost, marketing department needs to determine the marketing cost needed for such vehicle which differs from car to car, a brand new model never introduced like the Macan in 2014 will need more marketing cost than a car which sells itself like the GT4. After which they determine how to price it on the market based on competitors and marketing research. Of course this is quite the dumb down version because the final numbers have to be approved by both departments and it usually through a form of repeat iteration.


The cars each have their own marketing funds so that they have separate funds for marketing under each vehicle to keep track the contribution and probability of each model and how much marketing is needed. The GT cars are very profitable just on their current MSRP. The marketing department does what is called a "decreased profit write off". That means that Porsche does know exactly what their cars sell for on the market and they know what they could possibly make instead. Different department of Porsche will have each of their earning contributions (similar to a dealer will have different profit from each department, like sales, service, parts, which is why in a PDI, service department will bill to the sales department). The engineering department or GT department knows that the car they built are good for like 70k profit per car (random number) because they built a great product and there is huge demand for it. Each department wants to stand out on their review report to have great contribution to the company.


An example of these write off is employee plane tickets for airlines. Airlines will sell last minute tickets to employees at 80% off discount. These are seats that was going to take off and fly empty anyways, so any amount of dollar extra is extra profit (minus like small amount of payload for extra fuel consumption etc). However, the sales department will bill the difference between a standard rate ticket and employee discount pricing to the employee benefits in HR department (to be written as a cost of Human Resource), because the sales department doesn't want to get cheaped out on their profit for selling X amounts of ticket and how much profit per ticket when it comes to company review.


So although a GT3 is similar in profit than to a Carrera GTS, they give GT department more contribution per car in review in the form of a decreased profit write off (basically they acknowledge that their contribution is more than just 30k per car).


Hope this helps clarify

bronson7

I'm waiting impatiently.

I can only hope.
I hear you.

Free health care that I might just have to use.

STALKER99

Put down deposit over years ago, was told back then I was #4.

Canadian dealers will take care of their important customers, but we do get new cars at MSRP. If you have an early deposit, a good sales guy, you will get a car.

I was told though for RS allocations, which I have also been on the list for 2 years the sales manger will go through everyone's files and they will not be selling to ppl they think are flippers.

Time will tell.

-eztrader-

This is partially accurate. Typically you have to buy something new or used to be eligible to play the game. But then then a hot model comes out - cars are priced wayyyy over msrp. They just have ways of getting around it on the books. "Sponsor our company race team for $30k , etc...)