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Wow paying $50K over for two cars and you are happy with that?
I'm not in CA...... but buying a 2016 GT3 knowing the 991.2 GT3 is just around the corner, with $25K over MSRP doesn't sound....hmmm....reasonable....
Originally Posted by CAlexio
Your perspective confuses me. So you gave them $50k of your money and bought 3 cars from them, and you feel good about this?? And now you're hoping to get a car AND I assume feel good about whatever you're asked to gift next? The sales guys there and Gunter are all good people.. it's the dealership owners who set the prices... so no judgement there. I guess it's a testament to your positive disposition that you took it hard up the a** and are willing to go back for more.. I wish I had unquestioning repeat customers like you, I would be a very rich man.
Thanks for your comment.
So what would you recommend ?
Thanks for your comment.
So what would you recommend ?
First of all welcome, sorry for the somewhat rough comments.. not intended to be mean.
I would recommend, and others on here would agree, to never pay over MSRP, ever.
Call around for dealers around the country who will sell you a car at MSRP, especially for the gt4 there were many. Or wait until the frenzy dies and allocations catch up to demand, which they will. Dealers who used to sell at MSRP are now selling to highest bidder, even to well-known repeat customers... Fremont is one of them. Ask Mooty on here about that. I don't wish this upon you, but my money is thay you won't get an RS at MSRP.. that $50k goodwill deposit you made was forgotten long ago... this idea of paying for a good relationship with a dealer is a one-way street, and a very expensive way to make "friends". I would ask for the RS at Msrp promise in writing.. this is what people on "lists" have received in the past.. without this, you're just banking on hope which... you don't need me to tell you where that leads.
On the other hand, it depends on how much the $ is worth to you, I'm sure if I made multiples of my current income I wouldn't worry so much about $25k donations here and there, and clearly, many in the Bay Area don't worry about it. But dealers are able to gouge like this because someone on the other end is willing to play ball. there is no easy answer, and not overpaying may take more work than you have time for, or your time may be worth more than the $25k/car you're spending... only you can know that. I am saying it must be nice as a seller to have such nice repeat customers.. we definitely live in an area & time in the world of massive abundance.. everyone should get it while the getting is good I guess.
Just out of curiosity though.. check in to see if that $50,000 buys you a promise in writing for an MSRP RS or not.. I say this very candidly, I have my fingers crossed for you.
So I have paid 50K over Msrp for two GT (GT4 and GT3) and a cayenne lease with the promise to get a gt3 991.2 RS at MSRP. 1 year ago, GT3RS would go for 50 to 100k or more above MSRP. Only a minority have gotten one at sticker and I doubt any one with no Porsche customer history.
I am learning so much from you guys perspective but keep in mine I have only been a P customer for 1 year and a half...
And thanks for being critical
Don't regret your purchases. If you found enjoyment that's all that matters. Many of us would not pay over MSRP but a lot of buyers do. You're not alone. If the dealer is true to his word you will get a .2RS for MSRP. You will be able to drive it for a year and sell it for $50,000 over MSRP if that is what you desire.
Don't regret your purchases. If you found enjoyment that's all that matters. Many of us would not pay over MSRP but a lot of buyers do. You're not alone. If the dealer is true to his word you will get a .2RS for MSRP. You will be able to drive it for a year and sell it for $50,000 over MSRP if that is what you desire.
Hope
I have learned to balance my age vs time I want to wait vs my budget vs my pride to buy at MSRP vs loosing my sanity. Not an easy equation. But great constructive info here!
Thanks for your comment.
So what would you recommend ?
All I can say is if you are happy to pay for the game, it is all good.
I would just be patient and hope this hype cools down later. If I get the call, I'd be happy to take it at MSRP. If not, I'd be happy to move on to other brands.
Only you know your situation. Some people won't care spending $50K over, good for them. Some people MUST have a GT3. It is their choice and I admit I am at no position to judge.
Unless Porsche decides to start making more of these cars or raise the price $50,000+ there will always be a problem with supply and demand. Why is this car "only" $144,000? The GT3RS market showed that buyers thought that car was worth $250,000 on average with mark ups...not $190,000...The 918 VIP program as discussed a few pages back has ensured less cars for regular folks to snag and actually hurts dealers like us who sold ZERO 918 Spyders. Porsche should simply build 275 additional units of all of the limited production models to ensure that the VIP guys are taken care of. Not take those out of our pool which is what they currently do.
I spend years in touch with folks trying to get them a GT car at MSRP. I am a commissioned sales idiot and as such subject to the labels that go with that job on this board and in person. The guy first on our 991.2 GT3 list gave me his deposit in 2014. He thought it was kind of ridiculous I am sure at the time when he did it. I did it to ensure that when that car was released that I would be the salesman that sold it as there is always way to few allocations for the demand. I would much rather sell 10 GT3's at sticker than sell 10 4 cylinder Macans at invoice....which actually sucks just as much time as taking a deposit and waiting 3 years I can tell you...I also find that the GT folks are car guys like me and I enjoy the process and being able to build them a car as they would like it to be specced out.
We currently have 30 V070 GT3's in our system which has been pointed out should send a red flag up at Porsche HQ that we are in desperate need of cars...but it did not help with this first batch of cars. Until Porsche decides to go to a boutique McLaren style of only building orders for these GT cars this will always be an issue. Should Porsche only make Cayman GT4's and not any other Cayman? I certainly think so. I sold every one of those at MSRP...no haggling, an easy sale for me. A base Cayman is often a haggle festival of galactic proportions that takes my time and energy and nets me a happy meal at McDonalds once the car is delivered.
25 versions of 911's is also ludicrous with an allocation based system and not a built to order system in place. If I am allocated 100 911's to sell for the year and there are 25 versions of the car how many of each model will I actually get that I need? Dealer trading is never a fun thing to get a base 911 coupe that I don't have. Since the base Targa was released we have received 2 cars..total. Why even build the car? Just offer a Targa 4S. The GTS should be a coupe, 2WD only. Not 5 versions. Unless I have an order that you can fill once it is in V070 status then I don't mind having 100 versions. The same can be said for most of our models, especially the Panamera.
My idea of a sports car product list: (This is not an official Porsche list just my wish list only)
Front Engine Coupe
High end sports car
Hyper Car $1M +
I see no reason for a Turbo S or a 370hp base 911 for that matter. The base 911 should have 420hp...that way the Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder can have more ponies under the hood. That is 9 911 models, 2 Boxsters and 2 Caymans...which allows an occasional special edition GT or something else.
PTS should be year round and cost $15,000 to eliminate half of the orders immediately. Every year should have 4 throw back "classic" colors offered. 1967 is this years, 1968 is next years etc... These classic colors cost $8000 and are offered all year.
My 2 cents....which I can assure you is worth less than that....
Can we print this out, sign it, and send it to Porsche HQ? How many letters would they have to get to take notice?
Sorry, trying to figure out the great experience you had?
I got all my GT cars at sticker and that's in the NYC area.
Originally Posted by CAlexio
Your perspective confuses me. So you gave them $50k of your money and bought 3 cars from them, and you feel good about this?? And now you're hoping to get a car AND I assume feel good about whatever you're asked to gift next? The sales guys there and Gunter are all good people.. it's the dealership owners who set the prices... so no judgement there. I guess it's a testament to your positive disposition that you took it hard up the a** and are willing to go back for more.. I wish I had unquestioning repeat customers like you, I would be a very rich man.
Originally Posted by orthojoe
Holy moly. 25k above sticker on a GT4 AND GT3? That is even above the fictional 'market' price for the cars when they came out. I hate to tell you this, but they totally took advantage of you. I was able to get both of those cars at msrp, in the bay area. All I gotta say is that they owe you an RS at msrp. Next time drop a deposit down at Sonnen with Brett if you are going to plan far ahead anyway
Seriously what is wrong with you people? How have this forum become to peer pressured where people will be afraid to admit what they pay for their car and share their story? If you paid over, its frowned upon and you're feeding the vampire, a big no no. Everyone is so critical about the price that people pay. Very nice of giving a warm welcome to new people. The guy is happy and just wants to share his experience.
Do I really have to show you all my purchase contract for GT and RS cars at under MSRP in California to make you feel bad? And give you critical comments for buying cars at MSRP?
Be nice and help each other out! Everyone is going to have different situations and perspectives. Calling 10 dealers and getting the 50k over story from each dealer, putting your deposit 3 years ago and worry everyday as the car is about to debut if your allocation will be secure, and all that is not worth 25k to some people. Also, who knows, maybe from here on out he will get all future GT3 and GT4 at MSRP without worrying or giving a sweat. The GM or GSM may save him a spot every time and he doesn't even need to put a deposit. Not saying that's what is going to happen, but it might, and that'll be worth something as you all go through the same pain every time a new car debuts.
Thanks for your comment.
So what would you recommend ?
I apologize to you for these people.
I commend you for your positivity in reply after such harsh comments.
I would take this chance to really build a relation with the GSM and GM of Porsche Fremont. You already have one foot in, and don't let those overage you paid go to waste. Visit them, and recommend friends to buy cars there.
Buy a 991.2 GT3 while you're at it. Ask them if they can sell you one for MSRP while you're waiting for the RS, the key is continuous engagement. Tell them you don't mind waiting and you would like a PTS allocation if possible. Trade in your GT3 for a 991.2 manual GT3 with just LWB seats, or build a cheap PTS car (good color), you won't spend a penny over the year before you get your RS.
Good luck, and I can give you more personal suggestions into the dealer systems Trust me, you don't want to be calling a dozen dealers every time before a new model comes out and cross your fingers and just hope one would come to fruition, and then deal with the BS of denial and extreme overage. Take this chance to be set for yourself for future cars.
Honestly it's a car.. while it may stir up passions.. paying over MSRP is just plain dumb. If canadian dealers charged over for new cars I would never buy again. I would simply move on.. you guys in the US seem to crave the newest and greatest and that "must have it now" attitude is not benefiting you at all.
Now if you're extremely wealthy, I guess you may not care.. but the people of wealth that I know would never pay over.. Maybe their kids, but not them.
I would take this chance to really build a relation with the GSM and GM of Porsche Fremont. You already have one foot in, and don't let those overage you paid go to waste. Visit them, and recommend friends to buy cars there.
Buy a 991.2 GT3 while you're at it. Ask them if they can sell you one for MSRP while you're waiting for the RS, the key is continuous engagement. Tell them you don't mind waiting and you would like a PTS allocation if possible. Trade in your GT3 for a 991.2 manual GT3 with just LWB seats, or build a cheap PTS car (good color), you won't spend a penny over the year before you get your RS.
Great system. Best way to get 90+% of the GT cars spec-ed by the flippers who barely drive them. Plus allows dealers to insert themselves in the middle and shake down both Porsche and the buyers with abandon. No new car can get sold without them. It's the law!
I'll say again: Direct PAG sales and (Dutch) auctions for low supply, high demand GT models -- or just open up the market for anyone to sell their new cars whichever way they want. ("God forbid! That would be chaos!").
Franchise dealers are dinosaurs that should have gone the way of IBM computer punch cards, typewriters, and full commission stock brokers. The only reason their racket is still going is that the state is knees-deep in it with them. That's also the only reason why a piece of that action is so coveted and why everyone is falling over themselves to pay $50-150million for a building from which to sell new Porsches, if they ever come up for sale, that is.
Guys, as you know, I'm here in Canada and don't need to worry about MSRP and if it was the same here as the US, I would more than likely not pay over either. On that note, I somewhat compare this to the housing market. When times are good, like the present time, there are many people who pay over the asking price for a home. I guess what I'm trying to say is, everyone has a different level of $$$ and some care and some don't.
Dealers are no different than any other business but for there is a manufacture list price. If you are a deal guy and pay MSRP chances are you can justify it but anything over is an insult.
If someone can swallow ADM MSRP on a new car chances are they are going to get bit hard.
Exotic car guys experienced 50 100 150k over and all got burnt on an unlimited model.
There is a sweet spot in the unlimited used car market 125 - 200k. You will see 300 400 500 600k exotics all drop into that sweet Today's GT3 vs a short time ago they were 25+ over MSRP.
Look at where used GT3's sit today - history repeats itself add in higher production and you all know what happens. Porsche will always build something more appealing just keep in mind you will be 1 of 7000 when it's time to sell.
04-05-2017, 01:54 AM
