718 GT4RS
08-15-2022, 05:57 PM
#6871
08-15-2022, 06:01 PM
#6872
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08-15-2022, 06:05 PM
#6873
A 4RS does not "need" anything more than what it has. All of the 718 models have struts at all 4 corners. This is an economical solution that is particularly well suited to neat packaging (doesn't encroach on the front nor rear cargo area, for instance).
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
That makes a lot of sense. thank you!
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GrantG (08-15-2022)
08-15-2022, 07:28 PM
#6874
Rennlist Member
A 4RS does not "need" anything more than what it has. All of the 718 models have struts at all 4 corners. This is an economical solution that is particularly well suited to neat packaging (doesn't encroach on the front nor rear cargo area, for instance).
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
08-15-2022, 08:06 PM
#6875
Drifting
08-15-2022, 08:27 PM
#6876
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Edit: Please ignore. I thought you commented on the gt4 rs vs gt3 comparision video.
Don't think that is a rare opinion tbh. I strongly believe that the cayman would have outperformed the 911s if Porsche dint intentionally neuter it all these years and is also easier to drive due to the mid-engine balance. The GT4 RS would have probably beaten the 992 GT3 around the Nurburgring too if got a similar suspension upgrade.
Last edited by rj2014; 08-15-2022 at 08:28 PM.
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Mr. Adair (08-15-2022)
08-15-2022, 09:03 PM
#6878
Drifting
What do I expect? How about a sane response to start with. Not sure what your issue is but many times in these CAR test they do a great job of picking winners NOT based on price. I was simply surprised the 4RS didn't win. I almost bought a 600LT btw and If you would stop for a minute and take a look at my signature you would see 7 different manufacturers. So not really a Porsche fanboy dig?
Last edited by Mr. Adair; 08-15-2022 at 09:04 PM.
08-15-2022, 10:16 PM
#6879
Rennlist Member
Hmm, honestly, you guys are comparing the wrong GT3 with the GT4RS.
The GT4RS is still on the 991 platform. It hasn't moved onto the 992 yet, and not going to. The proper GT3 to compare would be the 991 GT3.
Last I check, the GT4RS's 7:04 is faster than a 991 GT3's 7:12.
Case closed.
The GT4RS is still on the 991 platform. It hasn't moved onto the 992 yet, and not going to. The proper GT3 to compare would be the 991 GT3.
Last I check, the GT4RS's 7:04 is faster than a 991 GT3's 7:12.
Case closed.
08-15-2022, 10:26 PM
#6880
That was a tough gig, the 720S-765LT are pretty special cars, incredible performance but in the case of the 720S an amazing suppleness - the fact they found in favour of the 765LT shouldn't be a surprise its at a totally different level, and I might add a totally different price point.
This takes nothing away from the 4RS - its clearly a very special car and clearly has a huge engagement and enjoyment factor. Reviewers are clearly taken by it, the look on their faces is a giveaway. The simple truth is the 4RS has an accessibility that a 765LT doesn't have, also it has one of the worlds best NA engines paired to the worlds best transmission.
The other point to note is the 4RS is compact and feels compact, most high-performance sports cars are much larger and they feel larger on small narrow country roads. In fact you can argue that its one of the benefits of a strut all round set up.
08-15-2022, 10:46 PM
#6881
Drifting
That was a tough gig, the 720S-765LT are pretty special cars, incredible performance but in the case of the 720S an amazing suppleness - the fact they found in favour of the 765LT shouldn't be a surprise its at a totally different level, and I might add a totally different price point.
This takes nothing away from the 4RS - its clearly a very special car and clearly has a huge engagement and enjoyment factor. Reviewers are clearly taken by it, the look on their faces is a giveaway. The simple truth is the 4RS has an accessibility that a 765LT doesn't have, also it has one of the worlds best NA engines paired to the worlds best transmission.
The other point to note is the 4RS is compact and feels compact, most high-performance sports cars are much larger and they feel larger on small narrow country roads. In fact you can argue that its one of the benefits of a strut all round set up.
This takes nothing away from the 4RS - its clearly a very special car and clearly has a huge engagement and enjoyment factor. Reviewers are clearly taken by it, the look on their faces is a giveaway. The simple truth is the 4RS has an accessibility that a 765LT doesn't have, also it has one of the worlds best NA engines paired to the worlds best transmission.
The other point to note is the 4RS is compact and feels compact, most high-performance sports cars are much larger and they feel larger on small narrow country roads. In fact you can argue that its one of the benefits of a strut all round set up.
Last edited by Mr. Adair; 08-15-2022 at 10:48 PM.
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08-16-2022, 11:28 AM
#6884
But in all seriousness, what was Ferrari thinking?
08-16-2022, 11:36 AM
#6885
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