718 GT4RS
08-15-2022, 10:09 AM
#6856
Rennlist Member
I feel like anyone claiming ADM needs to admit it is ADM*. No one walked into a new dealership and said "I would like a 4RS at MSRP, please" and got one. 
There were always extenuating circumstances of one kind or another.
Okay, I don't approve of absolutes, so "almost no one"...?
There were always extenuating circumstances of one kind or another. Okay, I don't approve of absolutes, so "almost no one"...?
Last edited by Adrift; 08-15-2022 at 10:10 AM.
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08-15-2022, 10:11 AM
#6857
Imagine giving the GT4 RS the double wishbone suspension upfront combined with the rear wheel steering. It would have surely beaten the 992 GT3's Nurburgring time and the incoming GT3 RS would have had a real tough time on its hands to compete. Such a shame that Porsche never let this chassis get to its full potential.
Before giving it the front Double wishbone they need to add the rear multi-link so handling problems are not introduce.....
08-15-2022, 12:41 PM
#6858
Burning Brakes
I know I'm not alone in getting an allocation at MSRP. Have I maximized the sales price on the cars that I traded back to my dealer? Of course not, they need to make a profit but I've gotten MSRP or higher on my GT trades so I'm not really coming out behind there. Any losses on my Macan and Cayenne are deductible given I'm in real estate and use those cars for my business. I'm sure that my dealer isn't the only dealer that sells at MSRP to its clients and even some of the stealers will sell GT cars at MSRP to their top non 918 VIP customers (I know of a few in SoCal and Vegas) so I think 1/3 is a good estimate for GT4RSs that are sold at MSRP. All we hear about are ADMs on here so of course people will think that 90%+ of GT4RSs are selling for over MSRP. We can always create a poll with 2 choices on here and ask who paid an ADM (don't ask how much) and who is paying MSRP and see how things.
Last edited by daaa nope; 08-15-2022 at 12:42 PM.
08-15-2022, 01:03 PM
#6860
Intermediate
I ordered the base headlights, I personally find them prettier than the busy LED design with the 4 dots
Matter of personal taste but I also really like the 981GT4 headlights; 718 GT4RS is pretty much a 10yr old car design anyway
Matter of personal taste but I also really like the 981GT4 headlights; 718 GT4RS is pretty much a 10yr old car design anyway
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168glhs1986 (08-15-2022)
08-15-2022, 01:12 PM
#6861
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
None of the modern GT cars is particularly beautiful. I’d choose headlights based on function (or cost if you don’t drive at night), rather than appearance…
08-15-2022, 02:14 PM
#6862
Rennlist Member
I feel like anyone claiming ADM needs to admit it is ADM*. No one walked into a new dealership and said "I would like a 4RS at MSRP, please" and got one. There were always extenuating circumstances of one kind or another.
Okay, I don't approve of absolutes, so "almost no one"...?
There were always extenuating circumstances of one kind or another.Okay, I don't approve of absolutes, so "almost no one"...?
3 years ago, before Covid, and before inflation, most all Porsche dealers sold cars at MSRP (if they were able to sell without a discount) with the exception of the West Coast dealers. Agreeing to pay an unknown MSRP was risky on my part - as I put up an non-refundable deposit and shook hands on it. Frankly, I think todays MSRP is about $25,000 higher than I would have logically surmised back then. So I guess you could argue that even at MSRP there is a built in market adjustment upcharge for the inbalance of Covid related lower supply and higher demand.
Last edited by matttheboatman; 08-15-2022 at 02:45 PM.
08-15-2022, 02:24 PM
#6863
3 years ago I walked into a Porsche Dealership and said - "Porsche is going to build a Cayman RS and I would like to be the first one to get one, at MSRP". The first dealer repsonded, yes, but you would get the 2nd allocation as someone is already first. I then walk into another dealership and they said we have no idea about a Cayman RS and if they built it we have no idea of what it will cost. I said, I'd like to be 1st on the list and pay whatever MSRP will be, I'll take the risk, if you agree to sell me the first car. We agreed. In writing.
3 years ago, before Covid, and before inflation, most all Porsche dealers sold cars at MSRP (if they were able to sell without a discount) with the exception of the West Coast dealers. Agreeing to pay an unknown MSRP was risky on my part - as I put up an non-refundable deposit and shook hands on it. Frankly, I think todays MSRP is about $25,000 higher than I would have logically surmised back then. So I guest you could argue that even at MSRP there is a built in market adjustment upcharge for the inbalance of Covid related lower supply and higher demand.
3 years ago, before Covid, and before inflation, most all Porsche dealers sold cars at MSRP (if they were able to sell without a discount) with the exception of the West Coast dealers. Agreeing to pay an unknown MSRP was risky on my part - as I put up an non-refundable deposit and shook hands on it. Frankly, I think todays MSRP is about $25,000 higher than I would have logically surmised back then. So I guest you could argue that even at MSRP there is a built in market adjustment upcharge for the inbalance of Covid related lower supply and higher demand.
08-15-2022, 04:01 PM
#6864
Rennlist Member
As someone pointed out in this thread, rear wheel steering might not even be needed in the Cayman due to the mid-engine dynamics so just the double wishbone should be enough to improve its laptime considerably.
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usctrojanGT3 (08-15-2022)
08-15-2022, 04:21 PM
#6865
I'm not sure there's any point of needing RWS on a MidEngine car......now...a multlink rear would likely do a lot of good.
08-15-2022, 05:05 PM
#6866
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-15-2022, 05:23 PM
#6867
08-15-2022, 05:39 PM
#6868
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
Last edited by GrantG; 08-15-2022 at 05:46 PM.
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08-15-2022, 05:46 PM
#6869
A 4RS does not "need" anything more that what it has. All of the 718 models have struts at all 4 corners. This is an economical solution that is particularly well suited to neat packaging (doesn't encroach on the front nor rear cargo area, for instance).
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.
However, suspension geometries like those with a double-wishbone or multi-link have some advantages. Maybe most notably, as the suspension moves upwards, the negative camber increases (camber gain). So as you corner harder and harder, the increased negative camber assures that the tire still has a large contact patch (under cornering forces, a tire is pulled and requires negative camber to stay in maximum contact with the road).
A strut suspension does not naturally increase camber when it compresses (the wheel moves upwards).
If you were to replace the front struts on a 4RS with a double-wishbone setup without changing the rear strut suspension, then under large cornering loads the front tires would maintain excellent traction while the rears would have a reduced contact patch and traction. The result would be a very unstable car (the tail of the car would move around a bunch while the front was digging in).
If only one axle was to be changed, you'd rather upgrade the rear suspension geometry first (this is where the majority of the weight is and having a planted rear is a faster/safer solution than just having a planted front).
But if you want to upgrade the front suspension, then really you should upgrade both axles at that time.