John McM

Tipos seem to trade a few $000 either side of $60k. I'm treating the $43k targa and TM raspberry red tipo ones as substandard, so outliers.

Well sorted C4s are $70k plus. C2s don't trade often enough but given the recent negotiations I'm picking $85k plus.

All of the above is VERY dependent on condition. No two 25 year old cars are the same condition. A few faults would easily see a $5,000 to $10,000 hit. I also think there are ceilings where for example a NZ new C2 with Sports Suspension wouldn't add $10k to the value. Maybe $5k.

John McM

I think that car is $70k max, no pun intended.

Macca

Mmmm. Probably best to look at that again. its 187K for a car that lists with Porsche NZ at 208K prior to discount and options.

Maybe saving 35-38K over buying NZ new before discount and getting to spec yourself. Also the car listed is effectively used (2000km) and will not have the NZ 3 year warranty.

Im not sure its a stonking deal?

Macca

Yeah. Only thing I would say is LHD few data points to know. I know with Jamies 993 it had a greater than 5K delta to the equation and the only 964 I saw LHD was a couple of years ago (dark blue) and I think it ended up selling a good 10-15K below the market for a RHD one at the time (probably in % terms around 25-30% back then). Also Im not sure original sport suspension is a plus as it would need ripping out and re doing by now but some decent coil-overs set to sport settings (like what Doug has) would be worth paying a bit over. I think you can otherwise pick up a set of B6 for 3-4K fitted so not sure there is a premium advantage there...

John McM

Sports suspension basically means coil overs done in the last couple of years. B6 plus H&R fitted would possibly be just over $4k with alignment. Not sure about LHD, but yes $5k may not be enough.

BTW I finished fitting the B6 today. I hope to get an alignment and height adjustment next week.

Macca

Well done!

I have a brand new in box set of H&R sports springs (road) for the 993 if anyone is interested...

996tnz

Yes, vehicles like our 911s originally designed as LHD simply work better in LHD. This may vary slightly by model, but as I see it, the advantages often include:

- pedal placement, as you say, is usually better
- the handbrake is right next to you instead of over by the passenger
- weight distribution one-up is better optimised
- gear indicators fall on the drivers side of the shifter
- Tiptronic slot places the shifter closer
- manual has the shift gate better aligned
- fuel flap is more conveniently placed
- the rear wiper clears the drivers side of the screen
- secondary controls (radio, demisters etc, PSM etc) placement better optimised to the driver. (Some other cars even end up with bonnet releases on the passenger side).
- some aftermarket accessories better optimised to the driver eg a Valentine
- cheaper oversear parts sources for 'handed' stuff like pedals, wipers, mirrors, floormats and headlights.

Electric cars with their greater freedom of packaging and more modular builds should minimise the tradeoffs involved with RHD cars, but the most intractable one remains the pedal placement as the right front wheel well intrusion inherently tends to cramp the most used pedal.

On track there is zero penalty- and probably some actual benefit - on the driving front for LHD. But having driven my father's LHD Mercedes a fair bit on NZ roads, I have to admit that I'm more than happy to trade off all of the above for a better view of traffic while driving. I love a challenge and, yes, LHD has some added alien cool factor, but regularly being the slowest fast car in a line of traffic gets old quick.

FWIW, I also tend to avoid window tints, but more for outward visibility than inward. Particularly around dawn and dusk, when some pride themselves on saving their lights as much as possible, it makes it easier to keep track of what's happening over my shoulder.

John McM

Revised after more thought and input

Asia new:
Tipo Coupe ~ $58,000
C4 Coupe ~ $73,000
C2 Coupe ~ $85,000
NZ New add $3,000
UK new deduct $5,000
Cab deduct $7,000
Targa deduct $5,000
Sports suspension add $3,000

The above assumes:
Good paint job - absolutely no rust
Interior clean with no rips, holes, marks or water damage.
Good wheels - no rim scrapes
Exterior plastic in good shape including lights.
Maintenance up to date, everything works except air con.
No value in engine / box rebuild unless higher mileage.

John McM

As mentioned before I think that there are floors and ceilings that have to be taken into account e.g. it appears that almost any 964 will be $40k plus, whereas the buyers seem reluctant to go above $80k unless it's rare and in very good condition. The sweet spot for the coupe model is the $60k to $75k range. Another factor is originality. If it's modded the buyers want the original parts as well.

Macca

Good summary John. I think you have pretty much identified the key elements and deltas. It's such a thin market and with a number of cars trading privately it's not easy to build up a definitive picture. Originality obviously trumps all else as evidenced by the (assumed) quick sake of the White 993 on TM a few weeks back at a healthy premium. I've no doubt we'll learn more about that when the car surfaces again...

Walt well done on that list. There are a number of items there I had overlooked such as the handbrake placement in the later water cooled cars (not an issue in the older cars as centrally placed). Even in the very latest cars such there are a few KHD legacies left - for example to shift manually with PDK in a RHD car you push the shifter away from you instead of towards - I think same for tipo - feels s but unnatural and constant reminder 80% of global production is aimed at those who drive on the right side of the road. For safe overtaking, NZ is more of a problem due to the lack of multi lane highways. In Europe or USA this is less of an impediment....

pcarplayer

I think you are about on the mark John. One thing I would add though is that sports suspension, coilovers or otherwise, should be seen as a sweetener rather than adding significantly to the price. The buyer interest I had (albeit only a few) were as interested in originality as anything else

Many on this forum see a track advantage in updated suspension, sways, mounts, etc but many end user have different use cases for 964 which don't see these embellishments as any real value add

Pel

Replacing the discs on the GT3, design911 has a few options:

OEM Brand: Front 199gbp, Rear 65gbp

Original Porsche: Front 325.94gbp, Rear 141.90gbp

Considering the cars use I don't want to scrimp, however surely the OEM rotors are also fit for purpose?

http://www.design911.com/Porsche/996...-cmo110-ct354/

Paul, what are you using?

Side note, I couldn't find anywhere except for Suncoast parts that sells GT4 rotors yet, Design911 & Pelican don't. Looks the same for 991 GT3.

Suncoast charge 75% more than Design911 for OEM 996 GT3 rotors, Macca where are you sourcing yours?

Chris_chch

I just did the front rotors and pads on the 996TT. All in, was $460 NZD for the lot, delivered from design911.

Rotors and pads were advertised as OEM BRAND, but were actually PADGID.

Best bit, was ordered Tuesday, had them in my hands at 3pm Friday, and no GST!

Macca

Rotors are difficult Pel. The weight of these means freight charges often offset any benefits from buying offshore. In almost every instance over the last 17 years I have replaced by purchasing OEM via CCS asking for a "special price" (usually a 20% discount on list). Ross at CCS parts has been very good to me in this regard over the years and Im sure if you ask nicely he will be to you to. The one exception was when I upgraded the 993 to RS+Turbo spec big red brake package and had the rotors shipped to ChrisM for inclusion in his container when emigrating to NZ...

For the GT3 I purchased new front rotors last November via CCS as above. Get prepared to be shocked, the GT3/4 rotors run $2500 a front set! To be honest no real saving as I said in shipping them ex USA. I only get around 9 track days on these using OEM pads, but the new RT RE10 pads Leong and myself have purchased recently should extend the OEM front rotor life to 13-14 days, which is a measurable improvement. The GT4 is definitely less demanding on the front rotors (lighter and different chassis balance), I think Leong has had around 14? days use from his before he replaced them last month. He is now using the slotted brembo type 3 rotors at the front. They are a bit more expensive than the OEM front GT3 rotors but the ongoing cost is lower (you just need to but the rings not the bell) and they should last 30+% longer than the OEM rotors as they are slotted not with cast holes.

The rear Rotors on the GT3+4 last a long time. Twice as long as the fronts at least. I think I will get around 18-19 days on mine with OEM pads (longer with the new RT RE10 pads) and Leong probably around 20.

OEM pads are a different matter. I get around 6 track days on my fronts and Leong around 7-8. The factory pads taper which causes the ceramic piston pucks to crack!

My advice for your GT4 is to pony up for the RT RE10 pads form the get go. they are road friendly (dont squeal) and kinder on the rotors. They will give you 30% better rotor life on the OEM rotors and the pads themselves should give you 13-14 days compared to the OEM (talking about the fronts here). Keep the OEM rotors on the car for now and consider what to do in the future. If you can get 18-19 days from a set of front OEM rotors with the RT pads then I dont see much urgency in contemplating alternatives. In reality for most of us thats almost 2 years track use....RT pads can be sourced locally same price as offshore (we can email you the contact).

Leong and I talk alot offline about these things and Leong has spent alot of time and money experimenting with the set up of his GT4 with Jeff. He now has a quite comprehensive suspension upgrade including toe links, hiem jointed rear arms, shims, geo, caliper studs and brake lines etc as well as the DCS module which he has had tuned for him. Hes the go to guy for GT4 set up as he has plenty of seat time on this car now with 18 or so track days and a couple of Targas and has fine tuned the chassis using all the knowledge from offshore.

If you are looking to sell the GT3, I would replace the rotors with OEM brand or OEM whatever is quickest and most reasonable to source.

Pel, Im pretty certain once you get your first track day in the GT4 you will find the GT3 redundant. Not only is it quicker, but its an easier platform to learn and more predicable and forgiving. Its also a better car on the road and as a new vehicle with road and track warranty it will have low ownership costs over the next few years....

Macca

Thats incredible pricing! I think OEM front pads for the GT3/4 ex USA are around $300 USD on their own!