Originally Posted by 996tnz

Those flat torque plateaus are artificially imposed by the manufacturer, via ECU maps like the RS ones I posted earlier. So they can cap the underlying torque curve at whatever level suits them.

Primarily perhaps to give a turbo car the sort of linear response of power to rpms that most drivers are used to from naturally aspirated engines. You can see the inflection points of the power curves (well lines under this scenario) match the beginning and end of the torque plateaus.

It also means that next year's model can have better stats at the press of a button by the marketing department rather than needing actual engineering. Or to ensure a given model doesn't encroach on the next one up the range.

But it can also be to protect the rods (big torque at low rpms can only be got from big combustion chamber pressures), the transmission, drivetrain etc. Or to manage heat so that it doesn't overwhelm the intercoolers and result in power reductions from timing being pulled due to overly hot inlet charges. Or even just for emissions control and compliance.

Originally Posted by gt38088

Very few custom tuned turbo cars have a torque curve as flat over such a large rev range certainly my Targa car in various tunes on 98 and E85 could never be as flat. Maximising mid range torque always resulted in a much narrower peak then bleeding away as boost pressure was peeled back with revs.

Originally Posted by Pel

WRX are legendary cars that Subaru seems to have softened up a bit much over time, perhaps lost touch whilst still trading off the badge.

Looks like the seller for this yellow hotrod may getting keen, considering a 964 C4 is 75k plus, this at 80k looks like fun, you need to like yellow though.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...1189380092.htm

Obviously buyers don't see value in hot roads currently, perception is untampered cars are depreciation proof, proven commodities, over an actual driving experience. At 75k plus, buyers want an untampered car.

Everyone on RL couldn't give a rats what their air cooled car is worth, that's the way it should be, evidenced by the use they get, however I suspect a large part of the wider air cooled community does, people won't sell due to fear of not getting into another one, I very rarely hear "I won't sell because it's too much fun to drive"

Originally Posted by 996tnz

Yes, I suppose someone could pay a custom tuner to produce a slightly wider and flatter torque curve, but everyone would rather take the considerable extra mid-range torque and power that comes from removing that factory imposed torque cap.

Usually pretty safe on the stock turbos but good tuners know not to push it too far, so especially with fast spooling big power aftermarket or modded turbochargers they too will also limit the torque allowed at low rpms to protect the internals.

Originally Posted by Macca

Im not sure if this holds true for Turbos, but the guys at Dundon Motorsports that build my new 991 GT3 race headers delved into the 991 GT3 & RS ECUs recently to try an address a spot (4000-5000 rpm) on their curves where they could not get the engine to make more power even with resonance tuning the length of their headers to scavenge more exhaust gases. They found that the factory have on the latest generation cars started to tune with toque limiters in the ECU to meet emissions requirements (Euro 5.5 & 6). I would imagine manufacturers of turbo cars are also using torque limiters in the ECU, not only to mange the characteristics of the power delivery but also to meet stringent emissions requirements around the 4000-5000 rpm mark....

Originally Posted by nzskater

I'd have that yellow hot rod in a heartbeat - love the colour, and the premise. I'm surprised it hadn't sold TBH!

Originally Posted by Macca

You are spot on. But its madness. That yellow car is a looker and with the engine transplant a goer too and a screaming bargain if can be had for 85K. Im not a collector or a bonnet polisher so maybe I see things different but as you say the market pays for cherished cars that will likely rarely ever turn a wheel in the future. That said my 993 was a bit of a hot rod and it did sell top of market, so there are some people out there (admittedly not many) that value these things...

Originally Posted by Pel

Yep considering all the high prices being bandied round, if I wanted a single air cooled car and nothing else, this would be it, lightweight, performance and getting reasonable price wise. Maybe buyers have checked it and found maintenance lurking.

Never say never, but I doubt ill buy another air cooled car, to make one really good, the bills that lurk beneath vs smile factor vs new car pricing, I'm just not wealthy enough, the juice is not worth the squeeze.

Originally Posted by Pel

CDI Ignition Unit failed, going to research what my upgrade options are tonight, probably an MSD system.