996tnz

OK, Panamera Mk2 synopsis as requested. Great performance, finally a good backside, and a nice interior, though 14 year old VW parts bin bits - eg cupholders - jar a bit. While they were busy raiding those old parts bins, I'd rather they'd pulled out a handbrake.

8 speed auto keeps it in touch with 10 speeders. Nice waist and bonnet line (relative to most other new cars - hard to get bonnet right since pedestrian impact standards raised). The back is sorted but the front looks less Porsche (or maybe it's just new-Porsche?), with a big maw, especially on the Turbo - which looks to be warming up to compete with some Audis and Lexuses for the basking shark award. But some simple detailing in there (eg body colour or silver highlights and definition) would probably break up that huge visual mass easily enough.

Overall, a good improvement on the Mk1. All IMHO of course...

gt38088

think a Macan S might suit me better rather than an express saloon like Panamera

Macca

Good feedback guys. Im not in the market personally, but have to say after years dissing the thing and then having taken a drive in the (now older gen) Panamera S a few months ago I was a bit surprised. The interior was WAY better than anything else in the range and now its positively space craft like and the exterior to me seem som much better resolved. New v6T petrol powerplants out performing NA V8 less surprising I guess.

Yes, what a shame real handbrakes are no longer. The Focus RS has one but the Alfa Giulia (and almost every new car) No.

I think the Panamera now only fails due to the NZ lifestyle - four seats only, limited rear load space and its not a high rider like an X5/Cayenne and such breed.

996tnz

Yes, big ups to Ford there. My personal highlight at lunchtime was finding some 'mexican' (hi T*nia!) metal/gravel corners and confirming that the Cayenne's 'foot operated parking brake' does indeed stop just the rears and leave the fronts turning freely. Wasn't guaranteed to be the case with its fulltime 4WD so that's a relief. Now I just need to free up my left foot and right hand again while using it. A plan is forming...

nzskater

What kind of impact would operation of the handbrake have on the AWD system in the Cayenne, Walt? Imagine it has an electronic front diff, and not the older viscous.

996tnz

Jake, years ago I spent days searching to see if the handbrake worked properly on the 996T, before its first gymkhana, at Ardmore. No info anywhere. So I checked the basic mechanicals were OK, then just tried it there, and it worked fine. The first generation Cayenne was, I think, the first Porsche released with an awful foot parking brake, so I figured they haven't yet stuffed up the mechanicals. Per earlier interior pic, the Cayenne TransSyberia (proper, not tribute) had a proper handbrake so that helped too. Testing on loose metal confirmed no problem - it can be slid around a sharp switchback very nicely indeed...

kiwi 911

Same as you, didn't think much until I drove one, and now I really like them too. They are great cars.

So is the Macan - I really like these and will own one when they half in value.

Maxem

Me too. They will do well depreciation wise as they are the top pick mummy's wagon at the mo and highly sought after. Any classy SUV will do comparatively well compared to its sedan cousin. A new Panamera would depreciate as fast as a seven series. I realised a while ago that the world doesn't need (and I certainly won't go there again) any more uber German big capacity sedans when there are diesel 4x4's on offer. Case in point my last BMW 530MS cost more than an X5 when new and a then realised half the value when well used and sold on.

Macca

Dave. I think its culturally specific. In China the Pana is the one to have (luxury large sporty sedan) followed by the Cayenne. Same in many parts of Euro, Russia and the middle east. Much better performance and tech and good for mafia as well as business exec. In UK, NZ, Australia the cachet isnt as strong.

I think the pick of the market value wise in 5 years time will be a used 2017 Panamera 4S or turbo. A new Panamera 4S is 275K. In 5 years that will be an 90K car.

To be perfectly honest the Panamera has a better chance for residuals than the Cayenne in NZ these days. there are 200 Cayenne for sale on TM and maybe 15 Panamera. A 250K Cayenne Turbo from 8 years ago is worth about 45K!

John McM

Cayennes are everywhere. Pete, Walt, Neil, Chris B and I all have one. I'm willing to bet that only Petes cost more than $27k. Fearsome depreciation. Macans are more female friendly and City DD size. I agree that they will depreciate slowly but eventually they will be supermarket hacks. That's a while away.

kiwi 911

Aussie Porsche prices are always interesting reading:

$800k for 993 RS - a thing of beauty, but wow on the price"

http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/...-13773059&Cr=0


$140K for an SC - Dave this will keep you happy:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/private/d...SSE-AD-4347589

Macca

Paul. I think the car industry in Australia is about to change. Im not sure it will affect the older cars but from 2018 the tariffs are all gone. You can buy a 993RS in UK for 350K AUD and import it without duties/tarrifs. I think we will see a big change to their car industry from a retail level. Alot of Japan imports will start flooding in there like they did here in the 80s! I think prices there will tumble across the board.

Macca

The advert is all wrong too. There were way more than 47 built. 47 RHD delivered to the UK. More like 187 RHD built. I think 23 went to Australia and SA got 12. Youd think they could at least get their facts straight. What a shame the car will likely never get driven again!

996tnz

For a more technical answer, the Cayenne has a centre diff with an electronically controlled multiplate clutch, which shuffles varying proportions of torque front rear depending on conditions (from a 38/62 default mechanical split). It only remains fully locked up front-rear when the second offroad mode is selected (the first already puts the transmission in low range). I didn't test in that locked mode but if it was going to have a problem anytime with handbrake on the move, that might be it?

Some info here: http://press.porsche.com/news/releas...ase.php?id=154

VW used the same diff for the Touareg but forced their default front-rear torque split to 50:50 by keeping the clutch partially disengaged during normal operation.

Haven't found written confirmation, but judging by todays responses on a loose surface, Porsche disengage the center diff's clutch entirely when the handbrake (well stupid footbrake actually) is used on the move, allowing the rear wheels to stop turning while the fronts remain driven.

In case anyone else is tempted to try using the Cayenne's foot parking brake on the move, note that the release pull must be held out throughout so that the parking brake doesn't lock on. And note too that the release pull acts against its collar rather than against the dash or the vehicle itself. In other words, you need to brace the thumb of your release handle hand up against the dash fitting as your fingers pull out the handle to use it, or else risk pulling the whole release assembly loose rather than releasing the parking brake. Just another reason why foot parking brakes are evil (though still less evil than the silly electronic switches). Talk about stuffing something up that worked fine...

John McM

They have eliminated the $12,000 special duty and they will allow a rolling 25 year old limit from 2018. This means that early '90s models like 964s are in play for more reasonable import duties from 2018. Then 993 etc as the years go by. Logically the arbitrage will close up so I expect local cars to be slowly bid up. A pity my garage is full.