Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
01-30-2016, 04:11 AM
Rennlist Member
Futher to our discussion above, can anyone remember what Steve was doing in the black road going 997 he owns.
I'm fairly sure he was into the 14's with this car?
I'm fairly sure he was into the 14's with this car?
01-30-2016, 04:50 AM
Yep, plus exhaust and tune. Suspension bit qualification may depend on degree. Aftermarket coilovers are a fair step up, as are programmable items. I guess some dual duty systems might win a second or two on track and still pass the wife tour test? THe GT2/3/4 cars leave the factory with coilovers already. Does anyone have any idea of how long it takes for the more basic non-coilover Porsche suspension to get tired? I understand it's possible to test suspension response while still fitted to the car, on a suspension test rig. Not keen to pull her apart to bench test them if they're still performing near spec anyway so keen to find one near Auckland. Anyone know of one they could recommend?
Last edited by 996tnz; 01-30-2016 at 05:15 AM.
01-30-2016, 05:23 AM
Rennlist Member
IIRC 1.14.7 at Bent Sprints? 2014 before he swapped out for 964 a Gulf when Chris & Neil took it into 13s. That car was on a typical "track prep" for a 997S. Steves a very quick driver so I think it's a good benchmark for a well set up and dialled in 997S road car on R comps drive with verve..,,
01-30-2016, 05:28 AM
Rennlist Member
Yep, plus exhaust and tune. Suspension bit qualification may depend on degree. Aftermarket coilovers are a fair step up, as are programmable items. I guess some dual duty systems might win a second or two on track and still pass the wife tour test? THe GT2/3/4 cars leave the factory with coilovers already. Does anyone have any idea of how long it takes for the more basic non-coilover Porsche suspension to get tired? I understand it's possible to test suspension response while still fitted to the car, on a suspension test rig. Not keen to pull her apart to bench test them if they're still performing near spec anyway so keen to find one near Auckland. Anyone know of one they could recommend?
01-30-2016, 09:07 AM
Three Wheelin'
Yep, plus exhaust and tune. Suspension bit qualification may depend on degree. Aftermarket coilovers are a fair step up, as are programmable items. I guess some dual duty systems might win a second or two on track and still pass the wife tour test? THe GT2/3/4 cars leave the factory with coilovers already. Does anyone have any idea of how long it takes for the more basic non-coilover Porsche suspension to get tired? I understand it's possible to test suspension response while still fitted to the car, on a suspension test rig. Not keen to pull her apart to bench test them if they're still performing near spec anyway so keen to find one near Auckland. Anyone know of one they could recommend?
01-30-2016, 02:59 PM
Racer
Originally Posted by Macca
IIRC 1.14.7 at Bent Sprints? 2014 before he swapped out for 964 a Gulf when Chris & Neil took it into 13s. That car was on a typical "track prep" for a 997S. Steves a very quick driver so I think it's a good benchmark for a well set up and dialled in 997S road car on R comps drive with verve..,,
01-30-2016, 03:38 PM
Drifting
Good buy, but the $80k asking was just what I heard, don't know if that was real or not.
01-30-2016, 04:09 PM
Rennlist Member
as far as I know there are two black 997s he's had. there was the c2s he took to sitt with you guys and then the latest one in the stable is the ex targa c2 that was for sale last year @55k. lots of RSS suspension bits in it. 1:14 is quick, you have to wonder what difference an s over a non s is in equivalent form.
The non S is the race/targa car. It's had a fair bit of development and weight taken out.
01-30-2016, 04:14 PM
Drifting
Yes I agree but unlike many have never seen the issue of buying back. Everything is for sale at the right price. Once you really decide you want something back you find an example you like and make a very healthy offer. It's like my old RS. Most frequent question after why did you sell it is would you buy it back. The answer is probably not or else it would be in my garage right now. I don't see the original new owners of those cars running out to buy them again do you? Think about it. Ray Barker pay 270k for new 993 RS in 1995. Today he could have that same car in his garage guaranteed for 350k folding. That's half ten price he paid for it u flatiron adjusted albeit with 80000km on it. Ray's not a poor man and probably three times wealthier now than in1995. Why doesn't he have 993 RS in garage then? He still loves his cars....because you get older and you move on.
I may be too old before my time but I call spades, spades and don't preach what I'm not prepared (or have already) practiced. Much of your evolution over last 4 years has not surprised me nor others. It's stages of where you are at. Time makes a difference. So you sell your old car and you play with some new (to you) ones and you always miss the old one but not enough to actually own it again or else you would. Nothing is unobtainable if you really want it. many cars changing hands like like Sean's privately. Sean didn't want to stuff around on TM, too much going on in his life for that so he approached A third party to put the word out to a few people who have the $$$ and won't fumble on if they want it. He got a result he was happy with and so did the buyer. Sure the market may have been 5k higher (or lower) but everyone's busy earning bucks to pay for living so 5k is 5k and life moves on.
pS Pete is an example of someone moved on from 964 a few times. Seems happy where he's at. Chris M too. Jamie, Matt G, Craig with his black 997. List goes on. 997S, Cayman S, GT3, GT4, Cayman R, 911 T, 911 SC - choose your poison...
I may be too old before my time but I call spades, spades and don't preach what I'm not prepared (or have already) practiced. Much of your evolution over last 4 years has not surprised me nor others. It's stages of where you are at. Time makes a difference. So you sell your old car and you play with some new (to you) ones and you always miss the old one but not enough to actually own it again or else you would. Nothing is unobtainable if you really want it. many cars changing hands like like Sean's privately. Sean didn't want to stuff around on TM, too much going on in his life for that so he approached A third party to put the word out to a few people who have the $$$ and won't fumble on if they want it. He got a result he was happy with and so did the buyer. Sure the market may have been 5k higher (or lower) but everyone's busy earning bucks to pay for living so 5k is 5k and life moves on.
pS Pete is an example of someone moved on from 964 a few times. Seems happy where he's at. Chris M too. Jamie, Matt G, Craig with his black 997. List goes on. 997S, Cayman S, GT3, GT4, Cayman R, 911 T, 911 SC - choose your poison...
01-30-2016, 04:26 PM
Rennlist Member
hP is not entirely where it's at so not huge differences. If you think my 993 will do a 16 flat with 280 Bhp and it's a 1300 kg road car you can see the handling is a big chunk of the equation. Get the handling right, with a 150 kg reduction the non S becomes a 1220kg car with 325 bhp and with a good pilot giving it his everything will better a slightly track prepared S at the track.
As a guide the 997S driven by STeve was fractionally quicker (less than 1s lap at Teretonga and Levels and 2s a lap at Ruapuna & Highlands) than my 993. The 993 has had further development since then (suspension, LSD, rebuilt box so can use 2nd gear, better geo, more experienced driver).
The 964 should in theory be able to get close to the 993 in performance at the track following a similar development path.
Once you get in the 13s it all becomes about tenths and they are very hard won and can be affected by tyres and Temp. The track at HD is fractionally faster now than 2015 too with extended chicanes etc. between 13.3 and 14.3 (only 1s) we have everything from race dare prepared caymans and 997s to GT3/4s. Even Patsy is playing here now on Tropheo RS. It's a congested patch with perhaps 8 cars doing these times all with various experience behind the wheel.
Probably a sweet spot to aim for is the 1.16-1.18 area where there is good variety forming and a thin field. 997s, Caymans, 964s, 944s, 993s in road trim can all play in this space together which makes for a great mix.
As a guide the 997S driven by STeve was fractionally quicker (less than 1s lap at Teretonga and Levels and 2s a lap at Ruapuna & Highlands) than my 993. The 993 has had further development since then (suspension, LSD, rebuilt box so can use 2nd gear, better geo, more experienced driver).
The 964 should in theory be able to get close to the 993 in performance at the track following a similar development path.
Once you get in the 13s it all becomes about tenths and they are very hard won and can be affected by tyres and Temp. The track at HD is fractionally faster now than 2015 too with extended chicanes etc. between 13.3 and 14.3 (only 1s) we have everything from race dare prepared caymans and 997s to GT3/4s. Even Patsy is playing here now on Tropheo RS. It's a congested patch with perhaps 8 cars doing these times all with various experience behind the wheel.
Probably a sweet spot to aim for is the 1.16-1.18 area where there is good variety forming and a thin field. 997s, Caymans, 964s, 944s, 993s in road trim can all play in this space together which makes for a great mix.
01-30-2016, 08:29 PM
Thanks Graeme, I'll make contact. If he doesn't have one, he may still know of one elsewhere. Suspect they're fine but but at 120,000 NZ kms I wouldn't mind confirming.
01-30-2016, 10:26 PM
Rennlist Member
hP is not entirely where it's at so not huge differences. If you think my 993 will do a 16 flat with 280 Bhp and it's a 1300 kg road car you can see the handling is a big chunk of the equation. Get the handling right, with a 150 kg reduction the non S becomes a 1220kg car with 325 bhp and with a good pilot giving it his everything will better a slightly track prepared S at the track.
As a guide the 997S driven by STeve was fractionally quicker (less than 1s lap at Teretonga and Levels and 2s a lap at Ruapuna & Highlands) than my 993. The 993 has had further development since then (suspension, LSD, rebuilt box so can use 2nd gear, better geo, more experienced driver).
The 964 should in theory be able to get close to the 993 in performance at the track following a similar development path.
Once you get in the 13s it all becomes about tenths and they are very hard won and can be affected by tyres and Temp. The track at HD is fractionally faster now than 2015 too with extended chicanes etc. between 13.3 and 14.3 (only 1s) we have everything from race dare prepared caymans and 997s to GT3/4s. Even Patsy is playing here now on Tropheo RS. It's a congested patch with perhaps 8 cars doing these times all with various experience behind the wheel.
As a guide the 997S driven by STeve was fractionally quicker (less than 1s lap at Teretonga and Levels and 2s a lap at Ruapuna & Highlands) than my 993. The 993 has had further development since then (suspension, LSD, rebuilt box so can use 2nd gear, better geo, more experienced driver).
The 964 should in theory be able to get close to the 993 in performance at the track following a similar development path.
Once you get in the 13s it all becomes about tenths and they are very hard won and can be affected by tyres and Temp. The track at HD is fractionally faster now than 2015 too with extended chicanes etc. between 13.3 and 14.3 (only 1s) we have everything from race dare prepared caymans and 997s to GT3/4s. Even Patsy is playing here now on Tropheo RS. It's a congested patch with perhaps 8 cars doing these times all with various experience behind the wheel.
Bollocks - there is more than 10ths on the table for people doing 13/14's. The difference is the GT3/4's are all in stock trim as there is no need to find time or refurbish elements of the cars for track use.
If I sprinkled $50k across my GT3 in performance mod's like you have with your 993 or the $20K it did with my 993, I am quite confident I could find a few seconds and not just 10ths. Headers/exhaust and chip are probably good for a second ($10K), and motions for another second or two ($15K), and I have only spent half your budget, cup crown and pinion and take out 80kgs like you have and I am sure there is another half second. I forgot to mention RRS suspension and some rose jointed bits to take me to $50K........
My point is the Formula is the same for all the cars (just add stickie tyres and the mod's described above) and any Pcar will find 3 or more seconds, just some start life a little quicker out of the box...........
Last edited by kiwi 911; 01-31-2016 at 12:56 AM.
01-31-2016, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by O2GO
Ha ha. How I love a post that starts with "Bollocks"!
01-31-2016, 12:06 AM
Rennlist Member
Bollocks - there is more than 10ths on the table for people doing 13/14's. The difference is the GT3/4's are all in stock trim as there is no need to find time or refurbish elements of the cars for track use.
If I sprinkled $50k across my GT3 in performance mod's like you have with your 993 or the $20K it did with my 993, I am quite confident I could find a few seconds and not just 10ths. Headers/exhaust and chip are probably good for a second ($10K), and motions for another second or two ($15K), and I have only spent half your budget, cup crown and pinion and take out 80kgs like you have and I am sure there is another half second. I forgot to mention RRS suspension and some rose jointed bits to take me to $50K........
My point is the Formula is the same for all the cars (just add stickie tyres and the mod's described above) and any Pcar will find 3 or more seconds, just some start life a little quicker out of the box...........
If I sprinkled $50k across my GT3 in performance mod's like you have with your 993 or the $20K it did with my 993, I am quite confident I could find a few seconds and not just 10ths. Headers/exhaust and chip are probably good for a second ($10K), and motions for another second or two ($15K), and I have only spent half your budget, cup crown and pinion and take out 80kgs like you have and I am sure there is another half second. I forgot to mention RRS suspension and some rose jointed bits to take me to $50K........
My point is the Formula is the same for all the cars (just add stickie tyres and the mod's described above) and any Pcar will find 3 or more seconds, just some start life a little quicker out of the box...........
If you are running stock GT3/4 or cars as per above it becomes 10ths. The RSG PB record for HD for a road car hasn't moved on hardly at all in 3 years.
Of course if you take a GT3 and make it a GT3 Cup it will go quicker. Its like taking a 993 which is 119 out of teh box and getting it to 116 without HP upgrade - takes time, money and set up etc.
But That wasnt my point. My point relates to the OPs subject of 997S at the track. I think its playing in a sweet spot for a road car assumes mild track modifications.