Obsessed

How did the track day go yesterday?

993 Targa

I think this where your pricing difference lies. The dealers here offer the factory leather option complete with electric drivers seat or they get it factory with cloth have it re-trimmed here for less. I'm not sure if the NZ re-trim quality is quite as good having seen examples of both but it is a decent amount cheaper of course.

I am lucky because my wife and I are practically the same height so the seat adjustment changes are minimal and I certainly prefer electric. I bought their ex-management car though so it came in the spec it was with no choice, probably would have chosen pretty similar though. I would have liked a sunroof, I am a sucker for them.

mikey_audiogeek

Good decoy

mikey_audiogeek

On the interior retrim topic, I could do with some advice from y'all:

I am usin Sparco Chrono Sport seats, they're based on the Lambo design: http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/21-...ono-sport.html

They're getting a bit tatty, with wear in the usual places. Thinking about getting them retrimmed in grey Alcantara/black cloth. Who would you recommend?

Thanks,
Mike

Macca

I think it was pretty successful.

Buba had an off in the GT3 at end of day T10 due to ABS ice up went straight ahead instead of around the bend over the sand trap into the tire wall.

He was fine, car is ok damage limited to Gard, bumper bit of panel and paint. Otherwise looked like a good day, dry no incidences etc

Macca

Breaking news!

Gavin the product manager at Toyo just advised me the new Toyo R888R will be arriving in 6 weeks and will be retailing from July. I have an 18" set on order for some track wheels for the Focus RS and have asked for a full size chart of what will be launched (the range is growing slowly as its a new product and by 2017 I imagine there will be a large range of fitments). The tyre is from all accounts significantly improved form the previous generation and should be an excellent track day option for 911s running 17 & 18 fitment. Expect around $2K a set.Ill post the info when I get it...

996tnz

Macca, I'm sure your silver tongue is the best defence but I had mine tested by an official certifier and carry the report with me just in case. She just scrapes in with the 3dB extra allowed for exposed rear engines.
Could've paid another $200 on top or so for the official sticker but 1. It's just another tax, and 2. My exhaust gets hot enough to blue so I figure my $200 would just get donated to track debris anyway.


Brilliant that most had a great day but bummer for Paul, though thankfully he's OK. That ice mode problem is one of the most stupid and dangerous things about the Bosch ABS fitted to our cars. Hopefully they've had to cough up big a few times in the States and have fully sorted it since.

Paul, what was your experience of this inane flaw? A needlessly dented car sucks but at least you're OK by the sounds of it. When I saw the aerial shots of Sean Edwards' fatal accident in Aussie (as instructor in a skilled student's car) I did wonder if the same ice mode failure was behind it. As I understand it, at the entry to a similar sweeping right-hander, that GT3 just went straight ahead over the sand trap to T-bone a concrete wall hidden by a row or two of tyres - with no appreciable braking.

For those unfamiliar with this problem, you're tracking your car, all's been going wonderfully and then you go to brake for a corner to find that the pedal is rock hard but the car won't give you more than about 10% of the normal braking force. So you fire onwards almost as if you have no brakes at all.

It's called ice mode because it was designed to stop the driver over-braking when on ice or a similar very low grip surface (oil, aquaplaning, maybe slick wet clay etc) by severely limiting the available brake force.

Reportedly the trigger for this ice mode is when a certain number of wheels slow much faster than the ABS (and/or PSM?) controller considers should be possible under high grip conditions, and is generally believed to be more of a risk as the tyres get stickier - ie further beyond the performance envelope of normal road tyres.

I've normally run with PSM and ABS off so haven't much worried about it but I ran R-comps with ABS on at the recent Sprints so guess it could maybe happen to me too some day, if it is purely triggered by ABS not PSM.

Some say that releasing the brake pedal completely (not just pumping) and reapplying the brakes can help restore normal braking but I'd much rather not be in a position to find out for sure.

Far as I'm concerned, the best that can be said for the Bosch engineers behind this is that they meant well. Just another example of adding unneccessary 'driver over-ride' systems to a car. Or perhaps - in the case of Porsche - of not doing sufficient due diligence into third-party components and systems. Great for a relatively unskilled Düsseldorf housewife in her VW Polo on an icy parking lot, not so much for a track oriented Porsche with skilled pilot on track...

Macca

That's interesting about the certificate - I'll touch base with you how you did that when I move back just invade I get stopped in the future. I've tested it with a basic tester at 900mm and its 0.5 Db below the limit, but I need it properly done. I think I'll have the factory x pipe put back on next Feb and see if that quiet end it up a bit...

We knew you would come through on the ABS ICE evaluation Walt - well done - that summarises it well. I believe they made some changes with the 991 gen ABS system as I've yet to hear an example of this happening on the track, but it sure is worth knowing about for all. Believe getting off the brakes and back on them releases the system but I'd be damned if I thought of this or had time on the track. Paul flat spotted a tyre last time at the track (which is odd) so it's possible the ABS controller was a fault...Bosch ABS controllers do play up with age...

964X33

Great day indeed. Many thanks to Paul for organising another great event and obviously great to have a small aircooled group to play with. Thanks to my dedicated crew of push starters. Shopping for a new battery today. Keith Sharpe was there who used to race against Ray Williams back in the day and used to run a race driver training school and started up the speed show. Very interesting guy to chat to and was in an SC. Showed some interest in RSG so hopefully he gets in touch as he was great to discuss driving techniques with and follow round the track.
Also Nigel's new fabspeed exhaust is a sight to behold. New 964 turbo arms race has begun.

964X33

Has anyone seen a performance comparison with Z221s?

John McM

The Z221 isn't run in many countries so it may take a while to find out. It will be difficult to best Z221 pricing in any case. Maybe Doug will switch back to 888 after Taupo....

John McM

I'm interested in battery options. I think I'll move Herman's battery to the Silver Project Car and look for some weight savings on the replacement. 14kgs is a worthwhile reduction.

BTW: How did the SC and 964 Turbos compare on track?

Macca

The tyre is so new there seems little written on it competitively, certainly nothing comparing to Z221 I can find. Z221 isnt used much in UK, USA, Europe or Australia - they seem harder to find there, maybe Hankook motorsports representation is lacking etc. Im a huge Z221 fan like many on here and Id be pretty certain the Z221 is a stickier and faster tyre in teh C50/70 compount most of us have been buying. The issue of course is now there is no Porsche series Hankook are supporting the mixed set sizes we run especially 18" will become scarce to source. Infact that's already happened as Ive failed to secure a new set recently. The Toyo R888R could be a real alternative at similar price. The reviews Ive read are good but I haven't found any Porsche people using it yet. I know Steve & Doug and others have used the older gen R888 and like them but i also heard people that dont rate them saying the tyre tech is old and the new forumale like Z221 much better. Also from recent research it seems in NZ if you are running a Japanese performance car with same sizes front and rear you are much luckier with choice. Most tyre manufacturers are bringing in 16/17/18" with 35/40/45 profile for these types of cars....staggered fitments with same rolling circ harder to find etc

964X33

Pel's going pretty quick John, you should be worried. He's probably going round 1:20 or 1:19 prob two secs quicker at least than Nigel and I on roadies. He really dances it on the edge which is quite fun to watch. Nobody was timing so just guessing. Pel?
Keith was circulating relatively slowly in his SC taking a professional approach in his first time at HDs and in the end cooked his brakes in what looked a pretty stock car.

Can't seem to find anyone using the Deltran on a 964 so not all that keen to be the Guinea Pig. Let me know if you find some info.

Pel

I've stopped timing as it was taking a bit of fun out, last time I used the aim it was a high 19. There's probably more there, I reckon when Dave turns up with his new feet the times could drop a bit