Macca

This double post bug on the PC version of Rennlist is giving me the ****s. I know Buba is having same issue. Man I wish these turkeys would sort out this site...

John McM

What I didn't realise until I dismantled various parts was how worn some were e.g. transmission mount. It's a false economy to leave those for the sake of a few $ saved. I've kept to message on the interior, the splitter was a couple of hundred in materials and plenty of sweat labour. Powder coating has run to $400 and the CNC Billet valve covers are a test piece for a business idea. All good fun and less cost than a bathroom refurb.

As for road trips, as long as it's the air cooled tribe my cojones will impress the jury.

Macca

When she is back running we will organise an aircooled weekend north. Probably have to be late March/early April after SITT & RSG day way things are looking....

996tnz

You're very right (and we could probably halve it again for an Integra) but mine still seem pretty reasonable when you consider they're doing twice the work of those on your old C3.

I figure (geek mode on):

996T tip ~1700kg loaded with driver, ~225 max kph at HD
70's 911 C3 ~1200 loaded with driver, ~195? max kph at HD

Kinetic energy just calculates from half the mass, times the velocity squared and the change in that is the work that the brakes are doing. While I'm not sure of my T1 apex speed, if I assume about 110 kph, with the lighter C3 carrying maybe 115 kph, then it works out as follows (a fair bit of energy is lost to turning each car as well as directly to the braking but the ratios still hold true).

996T: 3.3MJ of energy at 225kph, to 0.8MJ at 110kph = 2.5MJ of energy dissipated to slow the car.

911 C3: 1.8MJ at 195kph, to 0.6MJ at 115kph = 1.2MJ worth of slowing down.

Those are straight line calcs, and take no account of air, rolling and mechanical resistances, so the actual braking system energy figures would be lower, but the ratio still tells the story.

So I'm paying twice the money for brakes doing twice the job of yours, whereas Macca is having to pay five times as much as me for ones doing a similar job to mine (though his larger GT3 setup will have better endurance).

More jealous of that tyre choice you used to have though Paul - a set of Sumis run about $1700 landed at the moment, and again, that lighter C3 would've been kinder on rubber.

(geek mode off again).

Macca

Its a combination of "Porsche tax" on the newer cars along with limited AM choices early in the cars life. That said, for the 991 the factory finally fitted brakes to a GT3 that even the hardcore track junkies havent complained abut doing their job. 380mm floating two piece disc sets. Race Brakes (SA), Girodisc, Bembo & PFC are already making AM 380mm discs for the new GT3/RS at about half the running cost of the factory discs Im using, but only once you have invested in their Brake bell housing. I didnt anticipate Id keep the GT3 long enough to make that investment so have had to pony up for OEM. Anyway, you cant get away from $600 and axles pads cost, OEM or decent aftermarket for the new cars, those pads are huge!! Tyres you have two options the cheapest is $3300 a set and last 5 track days and 5000 road kms.

You pay to play with the GT3. The question with anything else with license plates pushed this hard for this weight is reliability.

996tnz

Yes, traditionally a Porsche strong point, and hopefully it stays that way. A GT4 going into limp mode at a recent press track launch in Aus was a first for all those present, though reportedly a money shift had been involved.

Of course even with Porsche rubber and seals get old over time and wear accumulates too so a new one is a safer bet.

Macca

Yes. To be fair age is a big part of it. Generally speaking tho Porsche make a strong product. There is better $$$ kit however for the track. Most of it falls short on the road however...

That GT4 was not a money shift I believe. It was an expired engine (perhaps manufacturing defect). First time its happened on a GT launch ever so they say. Its the standard CarreraS engine. They had to use Jim Richards personal car for the Journos. He raced it a few weeks later in the Targa Tasmania (I posted on this a few weeks ago).

nzskater

Interested in your feedback on the Sebro rotors Walt, I've read a few unsubstantiated negative comments so was leaning towards OEM, but if they're up to standard I'd much rather save the Pcar tax and go with them.

Also considering Pagid RSL2 pads. Anyone have personal experience with them (or the older RSL1).

The balance of power vs weight is something I often think about - raw bhp is a corrupting force, but I can't ignore Pel's recent shift and Dave's slower journey back through 911 history.

But I'm a fair way off heading that way - picked up a gaming wheel setup recently, with three pedals and a gated shifter. Let's just say that I'm glad I'm not paying real $$ for the money shifts I've made virtually. Best not hand me the keys to your 6 speeds just yet

Macca

Maybe try a 997TT manual when you are ready. That might give you the best of both worlds. Porsche didn't get their automated transmissions right till second gen PDK IMO. I couldn't get on with any of their previous iterations. All of them changed slower than I did!

As for weight much of it comes at the expense of things you don't think you will miss but you do. For me all my 911 must see missus any myself do DD duty and 6-8000km a year traveling NZ either between tracks but just as often visiting out of town friends, holidays or "dirty weekends" away. Things like air con, heater that works, rear demister, sunroof, sound deadening, safety equipment (ABS, airbag, decent crash structure), a decent sound system, some carpet, decent headlights, wipers that work and power steering. Dump all that stuff and it gets light, but you won't want to use it all the time (says the guy with bucket seats and cage in both his cars!!).

peterC2S

Yep - he ran it in Porsche series last year but is a lot quicker this year (think the Whittakers were sharing it last year which would explain it.)

Yeh - she's a bit rough alright...

kiwi 911

Edit: The consumables on a GT3 are more, but overall costs are cheaper??

The GT3 didn't need a replacement engine (touch wood), gear box rebuild, suspension rebuild, calliper rebuild, rocker covers, CIS rebuilt, wheel bearings, SSI's and dansk muffler and the 100's of other things needed to make a non-dedicated track car into one. The C3 was totally rebuilt, so was the suspension to the 993. I will not make this mistake again - twice was enough to learn the lesson..........

GT3 ownership has been very cheap to date, in fact I would make a tidy profit if I deduct all costs of ownership from estimated sale price.

Macca - I think I am in the newer is better camp for the track.

kiwi 911

I do enjoy the geek calc's - yes I would agree with your assumptions and speeds.

kiwi 911

Guys - entires for the festival are slow..................

I now have to go into ring everyone and chase them mode to enter.

If you are planning on entering, can you enter now please to save me the loss of family time.......

John McM

The Classic Trials are the same.

It may be heresy but it may be the requirements are too high for some. You have so many people running in the 2 RSG events prior to the Festival that I could see a freer format track run for 15 minute having more entries. Maybe one air cooled and one kettle run per day, or air cooled one day and kettle the next. Might have to forgo Prestigio cover if more than 10 each time.

pcarplayer

John, have you considered a clear bra? not just on the front half of the bonnet....as Macca will testify prob not the best solution long term. The technology and installation these days is much better than before. The adhesives don't yellow like they used to. UV protection, anti-mildew, etc

Trick would be to find a competent installer. This is key. Ideally, someone that can cut a template

Now is probably the time to think about it. Minimal paint correction after a new paint job