Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
04-23-2015, 05:02 AM
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I stumped up for the normal car group. I'll either bring BB2 down or the R. The Grinch and BB are already at HD. So much choice. Who else is turning up?
04-23-2015, 05:06 AM
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You shouldn't have sold your BB ownership share. There's no better wet weather car than an Integra that you can walk away worry free after stacking into into a wall.
04-23-2015, 05:44 AM
Three Wheelin'
also google War Admiral Porsche/champion
May well be something on RL turbo forum - I didn't look
04-23-2015, 05:46 AM
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Yes I was quite clear that we wouldn't be doing burn outs! I'll be touching base with him again wed-Thurs next week to see if it's still an option.
04-23-2015, 05:56 AM
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04-23-2015, 06:12 AM
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To the contrary I'd rather be in a 911 with a half cage if I'm going into a wall thanks ;-). At least I'd walk away. BB without cage front straight 160kmph in the wet sounds fun...till something goes wrong?
04-23-2015, 06:18 AM
Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
Originally Posted by Macca
To the contrary I'd rather be in a 911 with a half cage if I'm going into a wall thanks ;-). At least I'd walk away. BB without cage front straight 160kmph in the wet sounds fun...till something goes wrong?
I'll definitely be down - I may go ahead and book a Prestige session so I can alternate BB and the C4.
04-23-2015, 06:21 AM
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04-23-2015, 06:55 AM
Burning Brakes
04-23-2015, 06:57 AM
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Last edited by Moochier; 07-31-2015 at 07:19 AM.
04-23-2015, 07:01 AM
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04-23-2015, 07:18 AM
I'd be wanting a full cage if I knew I'd be going into a wall though, regardless of the make of car.
If you're hitting the wall head on, you'd probably be safer without the half-cage altogether since it essentially stops the back of the car deforming, transferring those stresses forward to the front half of the cabin, which will concertina more than it otherwise would. Imagine a 1kg deformable bean bag landing on your foot versus a 1kg block of frozen water. I've always assumed I'm driving in front of a sledgehammer with one in. The half cage is of course brilliant for rollovers and flips though, so on balance you're still safer overall with one fitted.
One nice thing about our Porsches, beyond having tailored blanks etc as part of a much stronger safety cell, is that they're almost as likely to hit the wall backwards as they are forwards, with the impact then cushioned by the seat.
That said the potential forces being applied in a crash are also MUCH higher than in the Honda. Your GT3 for instance will be hitting similar ~230 odd kph speeds to my Turbo before braking for HD's turn one. Yes, yours is 10 percent lighter, but speed counts far more. For a prang at the same speed as the Honda, I'd take the Porsche every time - but it gets harder to choose in real life under track conditions.
When I couldn't get over how much easier it was to take HD's turn one in BB versus my Turbo, I worked out the difference in kinetic energies being scrubbed off during entry. BB hits 170 kph max and both cars drop to roughly 100 kph or so to take the turn. 1200kg dropping from 170 to 100 kph only needs to lose about a third of the kinetic energy of our 1430/1580kg cars' losing 130 kph entering the same turn (since as you'll know KE is half the mass, multiplied by the velocity squared). That explained why I was having to do more work to keep the yellow terror tidy.
Similar considerations apply to worst case potential crash speeds (ie slowing to 0kph), with ours whumping into something at 230 having to dissipate about two and a half times the kinetic energy of a DC2 Integra doing the same at 170.
As Doug pointed out, the Integras handle very well in the wet, and particularly with a bit of fuel out back to help maintain rear grip, so at their lower speeds their chances of a prang are probably also a fair bit lower to start with.
Don't think you'd ever get me tearing up a track in a 500hp Integra though without a full cage! And on road at standard road speeds of course, our Porsches are a far safer way to go.
Last edited by 996tnz; 04-23-2015 at 07:37 AM.
04-23-2015, 07:39 AM
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Can't remember if it was one star or two out of five but yes, the Integra doesn't rate well for crashworthiness. I'd be wanting a full cage if I knew I'd be going into a wall though, regardless of the make of car. If you're hitting the wall head on, you'd probably be safer without the half-cage altogether since it essentially stops the back of the car deforming, transferring those stresses forward to the front half of the cabin, which will concertina more than it otherwise would. Imagine a 1kg deformable bean bag landing on your foot versus a 1kg block of frozen water. I've always assumed I'm driving in front of a sledgehammer with one in. The half cage is of course brilliant for rollovers and flips though, so on balance you're still safer overall with one fitted. One nice thing about our Porsches, beyond having tailored blanks etc as part of a much stronger safety cell, is that they're almost as likely to hit the wall backwards as they are forwards, with the impact then cushioned by the seat. That said the potential forces being applied in a crash are also MUCH higher than in the Honda. Your GT3 for instance will be hitting similar ~230 odd kph speeds to my Turbo before braking for HD's turn one. Yes, yours is 10 percent lighter, but speed counts far more. For a prang at the same speed as the Honda, I'd take the Porsche every time - but it gets harder to choose in real life under track conditions. When I couldn't get over how much easier it was to take turn one in BB versus my Turbo, I worked out the difference in kinetic energies being scrubbed off on HD turn one entry. BB hits 170 kph max and both cars drop to roughly 100 kph or so to take the turn. 1200kg dropping from 170 to 100 kph only needs to lose about a third of the kinetic energy of our 1430/1580kg cars' losing 130 kph entering the same turn (since as you'll know KE is half the mass, multiplied by the velocity squared). Similar considerations apply to worst case potential crash speeds (ie slowing to 0kph), with ours whumping into something at 230 having to dissipate about two and a half times the kinetic energy of a DC2 Integra doing the same at 170. As Doug pointed out, the Integras handle very well in the wet, and particularly with a bit of fuel out back to help maintain rear grip, so their chances of a prang are also probably a fair bit lower to start with. Don't think you'd ever get me in a 500hp Integra though without a full cage!
I agree on the Kinetic stuff. My GT3 has only limited laps at HD but in the dry I have seen between 236-240 kph on the vBox but I don't think I'll be going over 180 with the MPSC2 in the wet. They aren't good at pumping water especially now they are almost worn out after 10000km and 4 track days.
I have to confess I'm feeling a bit more risk shy this trip having already a used GT3 sized hole in my wallet from Cyclone PAM...