John McM

I do however think we should self moderate with accident pics.

996tnz

I'm hoping we start self moderating the accidents themselves. At least we are learning from them so hopefully they'll get less frequent.

Google Earth suggests that the protection on the track we're most familiar with is similar to the Queensland Raceway where Porsche Cup leader Sean Edwards died while instructing. Hope I'm wrong but it looks like just a single layer of tyres in front of a bank or concrete wall in places. Next time I walk the circuit I'll pay more attention to runoff areas and protection. A ramped bank is not as bad as a vertical one as it at least dissipates energy more slowly (ChrisM was lucky enough to go over) but in checking into some of historical racetrack accidents, one key factor is that typical gravel traps only work well at slow to medium speeds. At high speed (as for entry to T1 and probably the sweeper) a car just planes across the top without digging in and slowing (kind of like how stones skip on water). Staggered tyre walls with a couple of meters in between are reportedly better as they spread the deceleration forces over a longer space and time but I'm not sure I've seen any like that here in NZ. The car Sean was instructing in was said to have run straight off the end of the straight with its brake lights on and skimmed right over the gravel trap without losing any significant speed to hit a concrete wall with a single layer of tyres head on.

Sorry to be a bit grim today but I'd feel guilty if something serious eventually happened and I had kept this info to myself.

Statistically it is fortunately unlikely to happen to any of us but I'm trying to have a plan loaded and ready to go if brakes and/or steering fail at up to 230 kph. With a 3 point belt, its hard knowing whether its better to try and drift the car around but risk a fast side impact, or aim to hit straight on so the cars safety systems do their full job, but I'd rather go out trying so think I'd drift if I still had steering.

My default plan if entering a corner far too hot is to trail brake to the limit on track, drift if she steps out and try to make the corner. If she continued to drift off track, turn into the skid and ease of for a fraction of a second during any track-grass and grass-gravel transitions, then drift again on the gravel. I'd hope that the side of the tyres will scrub speed better on gravel than just braking with the car straight, and also lengthen the distance travelled to buy more time for slowing to occur as well as narrowing the angle of impact by having turned a bit more first.

With no brakes, I'd pump, release and pump then go for a handbrake initiated drift.

With no steering my default plan is to just limit brake (at a lower limit with no steering) then if still going much too fast at track edge add handbrake just before running off in an attempt to slew the car and dissipate as much energy as possible over a bigger time and distance than just skimming straight into the barrier. There's a risk it could result in a barrel roll but at least that dissipates energy too.

I once gave extra gas and spun to the inside of the track instead of running off the outside at speed but that's only useful when there's not a bunch of cars around you and it's a well sighted corner.

The above is a bit more complicated than the standard 'in a spin, both feet in' advice (which I have used in a full spin) but I figure it's what I'd naturally look to do anyway and should maximize my chances of walking away.

Maybe trying to scrub speed on a wall near the entry so as to keep a low impact angle might help sometimes too but I reckon that once you hit tyres, even at a shallow angle, they'll just pull the car into them.

Anyone have similar or different plans for the ultimate OMG moment when steering and/or brakes aren't responding as they enter the fastest turn on the track?

John McM

That's what the Integras are for

Macca

The midnight blue x88 3.6T is a known car. It's been on David's register for years and IIRC first owner was Tim Manning. One of the two NZ new MIdnight cars had a bad prang a long time ago I think Stefan knows which one but I have a sneaky it might be this one. 700-800k. Things are outta control. I'm as versed in RHD UK 3.6t. And 3.3t market as the next man,. as John says if straight probably a 180k GBP Maltons Retail car but remember lots of inbound costs for UK including 10% import tax plus 20% vat and compliance costs etc. UK provenience car will always rule over mileage it seems too. Only the cream dealers in UK picking up the landmark sales private sales somewhat discounted.. agree the audis are great wagons. My RS2 was the best built car I've ever owned. All the European stuff breaks here and too many electronics make hard to repair. A G wages aside you can't beat a diesel ute for durability. I've worked too hard to loose coin and have heartache owning outside the square in this place. KISS principle wins in the tropics - bush mechanics only here.

Maxem

So, if a 996 or boxster is a certain age and mileage now, like over 100k's and 15 years old, is it correct that if the IMS was going to go, it would have done itself in by now?

Macca

You'd hope so I guess but there is no guarantee as stories of woe still appear in the readers letters in UK Porsche mags. Porus bores is another malady - all that said I should think the chances of this striking so late on would be well under 5%

John McM

The Midnight Blue with the accident went to Australia in the last couple of years. At least that's what I was told.

Macca, I'm talking NZD all up landed retail price in UK. The X88 is another step up in the pissing contest. Strange because the 993 and 996 turbos would still walk all over it. But I suppose we're not talking logic here. All emotion.

Dave, we must confer with records, this car doesn't appear on the Turbo 3.6 register site as far as I know (checking with Jonny).

Macca

No argument from me john. Your estimates seem fine. buba doubled it must have thought you were talking GBP. X88 blue been on Daves list for years along with two others both red one nz and one Brunei off top of my head. Been working the list for Brian so become familiar with the list. Thanks for update on other midnight nz car would need to do carjam and talk to Tim to ascertain which was which but currently 4x4 with on hand wheel one iPhone so me no gat

John McM

Accident damaged one has grey interior. I have a photo somewhere. Max at the Toy Shop owned it for a while. Are you working off the Turbo 3.6 register that Jonny keeps as well? http://964turbo36.wordpress.com

John McM

I don't have a car. Took the bus as Dean needs two days to do the PPI.

RS ZWEI

Not at those kms John.

kiwi 911

Thats my understanding too. This car was living in Gulf Harbour and had a higher milage....

I think it ultimately sold for about $75K about 5 years ago.


964 Turbo 1993
Delivered new in NZ and having but 3 owners is far from common in a vehicle such as this the more so, since its current keeper's tenure has been for 10 years! The choice exterior of Midnight Blue is enhanced with similar colored leather within. Mileage is a miserly 80,000 kilometres which is supported by an OPC service history, tyres are new, the 18" Speedline rims unmarked and the stereo an original Blaupunkt fitting. With a power output of 360 bhp and only 650 examples built for ROW distribution this particular model as well as being regarded by purists as Porsche turbo at it's finest has undoubtedly a potential investment upside too. Classic Porsche!
$115,000

kiwi 911

Sorry - I'm only a PM, you need JMc or Pete for numbers..........

Macca

John. Heres the extract from davids sheet. It had done 69K in 2005 so by rights should be well above 75K now unless basically stored. Unless its had a replacement odo that is but i havent checked carjam

Aug-05 964 turbo 3.6, X88 5 94 69 NZ Midnight blue grey 120000 P was 130000, was 122500 P (RS Consult), now at toy shop, 06.06

Macca

here are the notes on the blue car Paul spotted today made back in 2007. Its the only one wiyh blue leather but wasnt recognised as X88 option.

Jun-07 964 turbo 3.6 5 93 80 NZ Midnight blue blue 89000 P / RS SB 5099, was 120k, was 115k, still for sale in Dec 07, start bid $95k, was 112k 03.08, offered for $98k May 08, and sept 08, Nov 08 requires some servicing, was 98 k, now 89k at june 09