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More fun to drive a s l o w car fast than a fast car slow.
Agree. I find it hilarious at the paper-racers who think 500 HP is "too low." To me it's even a bit too high (however, the weight of the C8 also is). I also laugh when I see supercars which operate more like video games today with 700+ HP. All I see is frustrating unusability, increased danger, and increase of getting tickets because you don't feel any soul out of said cars unless you're hitting triple digit speeds at WOT.
Give me a loud, connected, atmospheric car that has enough power, but not too much, and makes you smile at any speed, any day.
Anyway, the merge was fun to see which sub groups of members complained or complimented Corvettes in different ways. The only thing close in chatter volume has to be the GT350.
Variety is the spice of life.
edit: Nice housekeeping as well
Originally Posted by hf1
“The weight savings alone goes to show just how hard engineers worked to keep the car as lightweight and performance-oriented as possible.”
At least three items from the list described weight savings “engineering” done for the C8. So if they didn’t do all this magic, the car was going to weigh, what, 4000lb? It’s a rwd 2-seater, for crying out loud...
3600lb is 800lb more than a 987 Boxster Spyder, another midengine, rwd, 2-seater. That’s almost extra FIVE grown men flying into a corner together with you in the car.
Everything is a compromise. More luggage space to accommodate its intended market, a removable roof, a much larger more powerful NA engine and structure to handle it and associated suspension and cooling, plus creature comforts. At the price point this built at I think it is brilliant but we will see shortly as Moto journalists evaluate and long term tests become available. My 2008 987 Boxster S RS60 still handles better than my 2018 GTS with RAS. Testament to mid engine dynamics. I really hope GM did this right. Will it be a Ferrari or McClaren - of course not, but could it be 80% of one at a 1/4 the price - possibly.
As to selling P cars for a as of yet somewhat unknown IDK, but at the legit volume Corvette dealers $1K will get you in Q for a early spring build by which time a lot more will be known. Other than orders not delivered you probably won’t be able to touch one of these for the first 12 months unless you order it. Given that options are bordering on Porsche like bespoke I don’t mind having $1K on a shelf while we wait for more clarity.
Look, this is simple. The money required to add a stick shift option to the C8 would have had to come out of some other part of the program.
And it would have taken a lot of money, even if they used a Porsche-style kludge to add manual shifting capability to their DCT.
So the argument shouldn't be about whether or not the C8 will have/should have a manual. The argument should be this: in a car that has already been cost-reduced to within an inch of its life, what features or quality aspects do you want to sacrifice to get it?
No argument on my part, I'm completely fine with the C8 having no stick option. Many people aren't and I understand their disappointment.
I think Chevy assessed the 15% stick market on the C7, looked at the ROI for the C8 and punted. And they also realize many of that 15% will go ahead and buy the C8 with DCT. Then in a few years when they offer the manual gearbox, they get to sell another new C8 to those who wanted them in the first place.
Truth. HP is irrelevant when you’re flying into and through a corner — the most fun part of driving, for me.
I'm all for momentum cars, but for DE's with open passing chasing down cars with higher HP and catching up to them through the technical sections of the track just to be blown away coming off a tight hairpin gets old after a while. In class racing that might be a moot point since everyone should have equalized hardware for a given class.
For canyon carving, a smaller car like a Miata, S2K, Boxster is ideal since there are limits on how fast you can drive without getting into some serious trouble with LE or putting other people at risk since you can't possibly make use of the entire road surface.
I'm all for momentum cars, but for DE's with open passing chasing down cars with higher HP and catching up to them through the technical sections of the track just to be blown away coming off a tight hairpin gets old after a while.
I see this complaint a lot yet I can’t relate even though I went from Green to Black (pre-instructor) group in a black bone stock 987 Boxster S with std suspension. If you catch up to a high HP car that is much slower than you and is putting the anchor down in every corner, all it takes is a little planning (speed diff estimate, timing, delay) to eliminate losing any of your momentum behind them in the turn and timing to arrive at their bumper and pass at/after track out when the speed differential is the largest. Then, if the straight is too long and they catch up with sheer HP, just don’t give them the point-by (or defend the inside if/when racing) and after the next turn you’ll be gone.
The most common mistake I see low HP momentum cars make with slow high HP cars is parking it right behind them in the turn and losing all momentum. Never lose momentum, should be the mantra.
Chevrolet lists the C8 Corvette Stingray coupe’s curb weight at 3,366 pounds, 68 heavier than the ’18 Stingray coupe and 16 pounds lighter than the new 911 Carrera S. Oops!
My only issue is the newer 911's is the car has gotten very BIG. Remember this ad for the 50th Anniversary? It hasn't gotten smaller. I own one like the car on the left. It is one of the most rewarding cars I've ever owned. Feedback, feel and aural melodies that the new stuff just doesn't have NOR could they sell in this day and age.
Chevrolet lists the C8 Corvette Stingray coupe’s curb weight at 3,366 pounds, 68 heavier than the ’18 Stingray coupe and 16 pounds lighter than the new 911 Carrera S. Oops!
This misinformation started and repeated by amateur journalists is just too hard to squash in the interweb echo chamber. GM lists the C8 DRY weight at 3366lb which people then compare with the C7 CURB weight to arrive at their 68lb diff. The C8 at around 3600lb+ CURB weight is at least 300lb heavier than C7.
Maybe this lie is being spread intentionally to throw dust in the air and squash any discussions about the much increased weight. Just focus on the 495hp midengine V8 for $60k — it’s all that matters — nothing to see re weight.
It's obvious that it'd be impossible for GM to get the weight down much and keep the base cost under the amazing $60k. I had another thought on it though. It may be that GM didn't care all that much. In general, we're duplicating the 1930's where both mass and power increased in a leapfrog manner. Every government regulation adds mass - some great and some small.
Here perhaps GM doesn't care since the C8 isn't AWD. The added mass means better traction for the two drive wheels which make GM's claim that the Z51 will go 0-60 in under 3 seconds plausible. If you could wave a magic wand, I doubt that could be done with say a 2,900 lb C8.
I dislike the rear end like many but don't find it repellent as I do the C7.
^^^^ its large, heavy and cheap for a mid-engined car - thats the take away.
There is no innovation that I can see. I have slowly moved from enthusiastic to tepid.
I’m sure there’s engineering and innovation, but to what ends and targeted to which market? I’ve moved from enthusiastic to tepid too, but will reserve judgment until after reviews and I get to drive it. 1-2yr wait is better anyway for them to work any kinks out on so many new things with the C8.
At this point, I’m almost certain that the C8, with that weight and size, will be less fun on my backroads than both my Boxster and my GT3. Potentially, it could pass as a drive to track DE car if reliability and robustness get confirmed with time. Though it is obvious that it wasn’t built with that as its primary purpose or target market. More as a comfy GT cruiser that looks like a Ferrari for 1/4 the price.
I am still enthusiastic, but tamping down on the hype.
The weight doesn't concern me nearly as much as the wheelbase. My GT350 is probably just as heavy and long but I feel it's acceptably nimble thru suspension and damper design trickery while on circuit.
I think those expecting cayman-esque lightness and responsiveness will be disappointed.
But I am reserving final judgement until some in-depth drive reviews are done. I did see alot of development testing on the Nurburgring, this is encouraging.
Really the only knock about Vettes have been their interior quality. Which has just about zero relevance in a dedicated track car. I think the C8 may be the bargain track car of all time. Mid-engine, lots of power, DCT for those going for fastest lap times, what's not to love? The same money only buys a 300hp base 718. Really the only reason to get a 718 for a track car vs. the C8 is if one absolutely has to have a manual.
How many base Cayman/Boxster interiors have you been in? The standard interior on a 718 is very cheap looking... The door panels are one big plastic POS as well as the dash and center counsel. If we're being honest here and comparing MSRP to MSRP, then the Corvette wins hands down for having a much better interior quality for the same price. They days of "I wish they made nicer interiors" are over.
Chevrolet must of hit a home run because I haven't seen this much bias towards a new car in a long time!
Modern cars tend to be heavy. If the chassis is non carbon you are going to get weights north of 3k pounds. Cars that are light are not cars that get bought (outside of special editions.)
We are seeing this now with manuals. The vocal minority speaks up, but when it comes to take rate, it's depressingly low.
I would skip this base model and focus on the Z06 or Grand Sport.
07-24-2019, 08:10 AM
